Neturei Karta; ArtScroll, Arius, and Orangutans; Suicide and the Law of Rodef

Neturei Karta; ArtScroll, Arius, and Orangutans; Suicide and the Law of Rodef

 Neturei Karta; ArtScroll, Arius, and Orangutans; Suicide and the Law of Rodef

Marc B. Shapiro

1. We have recently seen behavior by so-called religious Jews that is vile. I refer to the actions of Neturei Karta. Of course, we have all seen their antics in the past, but I think most of us looked at them as clowns and sick people that maybe we should feel sorry for. This is no longer the case. Now they are marching in support of the murderers of Jews, aligning themselves with the enemy, and attempting to destroy the State of Israel. They are doing this at the very time that Jews are being killed at war. It is true that in the past as well they openly aligned themselves with the PLO,[1] and R. Moshe Feinstein already in the late 1970s referred to Neturei Karta as reshaim.[2] But to be allied during wartime with Iran and Hamas is I think beyond what we have seen before.

Here you can see a video of a Neturei Karta delegation that went to Iran to pay respects after the death of President Raisi. Here a different delegation visits the Iranian ambassador to the U.N. to pay respects. Here they are in Qatar at the funeral of Ismail Haniyeh whose death they mourned in a public statement here. It is hard to imagine anything more obscene than this. What we have seen from Neturei Karta since October 7 goes way beyond making a hillul ha-shem.[3]

Until his death, the spiritual leader of this group was Rabbi Moshe Beck (1934-2021). Here you can see him showing his affection for the Iranian leader Ahmadenijad. In the ultimate obscenity, in his book Derekh ha-Hatzalah (Monsey, 2002), pp. 40ff., Beck actually explains why it is halakhically appropriate to congratulate terrorists on a “successful” operation, namely, when they murder Jews. Thus, it is entirely in line with Neturei Karta ideology for them to praise the October 7 “resistance.” Here is his outrageous conclusion (p. 44):

מותר לומר להפאלעסטינים יפה עשיתם שהרגתםכיון שעי דיבורים אלו יצמח הצלה להרבה מישראל המתנגדים לציונות

And what about the fact that even pious Jews will be hurt if Neturei Karta’s propaganda is successful and U.S. government aid to Israel is cut? Beck explains that this is not a problem, as the Zionists cannot be helped, even if the pious also would benefit (p. 41):

ועל אחת כמה וכמה לענין מורדים בה‘ וכופרים ומחטיאים כמו הציונים וכל כתותיהםשבודאי נאסר הסיוע להם בכל אופןאפילו שלא בענין העבירהואפילו יוצא תועלת מסיוע זה לצדיקים ועובדי ה

Over thirty years ago I was naive and thought that I might be able to have a productive correspondence with Beck. Here are three letters I received from him.

    

Regarding the third letter, I am not sure why he wrote that I “disguised” myself in my first two letters. I simply wrote to him with questions and never said or implied that I agreed with him in any way. In my second letter I actually strongly protested how he referred to Rav Kook. In his response to this letter he also answers my question how he could cite from R. Reuven Margaliyot’s commentary on Sefer Hasidim when R. Margaliyot was a religious Zionist whose book was published by Mossad ha-Rav Kook. (I never said that he was a maskil). In my third letter I attacked him for degrading great Torah scholars and I mentioned that R. Aharon Kotler supported the State of Israel. I never said he was a Zionist. My point was that once the State of Israel was declared, with the lives of millions of Jews depending on it, anti-Zionism in the sense of opposing the creation of a Jewish state was now no longer relevant. Once the State of Israel was created, anti-Zionism came to mean working to destroy the Jewish state, and thus putting millions of Jewish lives at risk. Satmar anti-Zionism is religiously based but remains entirely theoretical, even eschatological, and Satmar has always been absolutely opposed to allying with anti-Semites and terrorists and their supporters.)

See also here where a number of years ago I wrote the next few paragraphs (now updated slightly).

Readers should examine the following document, which is found in the Central Zionist Archives S25/4752

It is a copy of a letter sent to the Supreme Muslim Council in Jerusalem from Aryeh Leib Weissfish. Weissfish was later to become famous as one of the leaders of the Neturei Karta, and strangely enough he was also a great fan of Nietzsche. You can read about his colorful career here, where it mentions how he illegally entered Jordan in 1951 to bring a message from the Neturei Karta that Jordan should invade Jerusalem and the Neturei Karta would be its ally in this. When he was deported to Israel he was put on trial and sentenced to six months in prison.

In view of the fact that during World War II there was a fear that Germany would invade the Land of Israel and that this would also lead to the Arabs persecuting Jews, Weissfish wrote to the local Muslim leaders to let them know that the Old Yishuv type of Jews that he is speaking about are not involved in politics and that they oppose the Zionists. They have always treated the Arabs with respect and he therefore requests that these Jews be protected. He also offers to provide the names of the families who should be given this special treatment. As you can see from Yitzhak Ben-Zvi’s handwritten note at the bottom of the letter, Ben-Zvi copied it from the original letter which he found in the Supreme Muslim Council’s archives.

R. Shlomo Brody has recently published a fabulous book, with a great title, which is unfortunately very timely: Ethics of Our Fighters: A Jewish View on War and Morality. While I am sure I will have more to say about this book at a future time, I would for now just wish to add that when it comes to Neturei Karta and those of a similar mindset, I was wondering about some halakhic and ethical issues that Brody does not discuss. (In general, he does not discuss the home front.) For example, can such people be counted to a minyan? Are you allowed to give charity to them, and if not, how about the children who will suffer through no fault of their own? Can the children of such a family be kicked out of a yeshiva? If these people have businesses, should we boycott them, again, causing the children to suffer for the sins of their fathers? Or should we just ignore these people entirely? These questions are not only relevant when it comes to Neturei Karta, for as we have seen since October 7 there are many other enemies of Israel and the Jewish people. Some of them who support Hamas are themselves Jewish. As far as I know, there has not yet appeared an analysis of how such traitors are to be regarded in Jewish law.

2. A couple of people sent me something that was going around the internet asking what I thought, so I figured I would elaborate on the blog. Rashi, Deut. 1:12, quotes the Sifrei, Devarim, no. 13, that אריוס asked Rabbi Yose a question. In the ArtScroll translation of Rashi by R. Yisrael Isser Zvi Herczeg there is the following note on this passage: “Nothing other than what is mentioned here is known about this person. His name appears nowhere else in Torah literature.”

This is not exactly correct. As Louis Finkelstein points out in his edition of the Sifrei (p. 22), Tosefta Bava Metzia 3:11, records a question Arius asked the Sages. This is what appears in the important Erfurt manuscript of the Tosefta used by Zuckermandel in his edition, but Arius’ name does not appear in the Tosefta published in the back of the Talmud.[4]

In the updated version of the ArtScroll Rashi translation, they explain who Arius was (R. Herczeg had nothing to do with this update): “A 4th century C.E. Christian theologian whose views on religion clashed with standard church teachings; his followers are called Arians. (An analysis of his question to R’ Yose appears in Likkutei Sichos, Vol. 34, p. 15.)

 

I do not know why someone working at ArtScroll decided it was important to add this information. I also do not know why the person who added the information did not see the immediate problem. Arius, who at most was only in the Land of Israel for a short time, was a fourth-century theologian in the period of the amoraim. How then could he be asking questions of the tanna R. Yose or any of the other tannaitic sages? This alone should have been enough to show that the Arius mentioned by the Sifrei is not the Christian theologian Arius. When the ArtScroll Rashi is next reprinted, the updated note should be deleted as it is clearly in error, and the original note should be reinserted. I have to say that I find it of interest that the updated note has a reference to the Likutei Sihot of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, a figure who does not appear often in ArtScroll publications. This reference should definitely remain.

Where did ArtScroll get the information in the new note? Perhaps from the entry on Arius in the Otzar Yisrael encyclopedia (vol. 2, pp. 192-193). The Otzar Yisrael entry states, without any evidence, that the R. Yose mentioned in the Sifrei is one of the amoraim named R. Yose, not the tanna. But there is no reason to assume this to be the case, and lots of reasons to assume it is not so. We are fortunate that the Otzar Yisrael entry has a bibliography and we are thus able to see where they got their information from: R. Elijah Benamozegh’s Em la-Mikra to Deut. 1:13, which goes on for many pages.

I have great respect for R. Benamozegh and have given a number of classes on him.[5] Yet as mentioned already, there is no reason to think that the R. Yose mentioned in the Sifrei is an amora as R. Benamozegh claims. We should assume that he is the second-century R. Yose ben Halafta for this is how the tanna R. Yose is mentioned in rabinic literature, namely, without his father’s name. I would also note that the Talmud records a number of R. Yose ben Halafta’s conversations with non-Jews. Therefore, his interaction with Arius makes perfect sense

As for Arius, Moshe David Herr believes that he must have been a convert to Judaism. Referring to his mention in Tosefta, Bava Metzia 3:11, Herr writes “This question, which manifests expert knowledge of the halakhah on the part of the inquirer, proves that he was a Jew.”[6]

Returning to R. Benamozegh, it needs to be mentioned that his commentary on the Torah suffers from the same problem as many others, in that as one who was up to date in modern historical scholarship and science, he tries to explain the Torah in the light of this knowledge. Yet mid-19th century understandings in these areas has usually been rejected and thus cannot speak to 21st century readers. On occasion, what he says will be found offensive by modern readers, such as his discussion of the curse of Canaan in his Em la-Mikra to Genesis 9:25. Here it is from R. Eliyahu Zini’s wonderful new edition.

Although it could be that R. Benamozegh himself held the liberal view of Tiedemann, the even-handed way he discusses the matter does not make for comfortable reading today.

R. Israel Lifshitz, the author of Tiferet Yisrael on the Mishnah, also liked to connect modern scientific discoveries with Torah and rabbinic texts. Unfortunately, not all of his information  was correct. Since R. Benamozegh mentions orangutans, let me tell you what R. Lifshitz has to say about them, which he must have read in some book or newspaper. In his commentary to Kil’ayim[7] 8:5, he states that in Africa orangutans are taught to chop trees and draw water, to wear human clothes and to sit at a table and eat with silverward. (In truth, orangatuns are not found in Africa but are native to parts of Asia.) And in case people were wondering, he also adds that despite the orangutan’s near-human characteristics, when it dies it is regarded like every other animal and does not create ritual impurity as do dead humans.[8]

Although, as mentioned, R. Lifshitz must have acquired his incorrect information about orangutans from some book or newspaper, I should note that the Talmud discusses how monkeys are capable of performing various tasks for humans and this might have influenced R. Lifshitz in assuming the same to be true of orangutans. The expression מעשה קוף is well known, and this page gives a number of talmudic references to actions of monkeys. However, the list is not complete and it omits Bava Kamma 101a which mentions a monkey dying wool with a particular dye. It also omits Yadayim 1:8 which refers to a monkey pouring water over a person’s hands. For those interested in the topic, R. Baruch Plotchek wrote an article on monkeys in the Bible and Talmud.[9] One of the interesting things he points out is that Kohelet Rabbah comments on Eccl. 6:11: כִּי יֵשׁדְּבָרִים הַרְבֵּהמַרְבִּים הָבֶל, that included in the “vanity” is the raising of monkeys. This shows that when this Midrash was written, people, presumably including Jews, kept monkeys as pets. Also of interest is that Plotchek identifies what we can term proto-Darwinian ideas in some rabbinic statements. As far as I know, he was the first to make this point, which was later picked up by others trying to reconcile Torah and evolution.

3. In the last post I pointed to an interesting explanation of R. Chaim Heller that solved a textual problem. Here is another one he offered: Piskei Tosafot (at the back of the Vilna Shas), Shabbat, no. 130, states that in a city that has pigs, the buildings in it are exempt from the law of mezuzah: עיר שיש בה חזירים פטורה מן המזוזה

There is no talmudic source for this passage and on its face it is astounding, as why should the presence of pigs mean that Jews don’t need a mezuzah? If followed in practice, this text would mean that no city in the Christian world needs mezuzot. (In fact, from statements of Ashkenazic rishonim we know that in medieval Ashkenaz many people did not affix mezuzot, and perhaps this laxity arose from the view recorded in Piskei Tosafot.[10])


R. Heller suggested that there was a scribal error and that instead of עיר שיש בה חזירים the text should read דיר שיש בה חזירים, that is, a pigsty does not need a mezuzah.[11] I don’t think this emendation is found in any of R. Heller’s writings, but it is mentioned in his name by Dr. Tibor Juda, the late son-in-law of R. Pinchas Hirschprung,[12] in this video about R. Abraham Price, beginning at 36:38. R. Price was a student of R. Heller in Berlin before he came to Toronto. Not surprising, Abraham Rosenberg, whom I discussed in previous posts here and here, also mentions this emendation which he must have heard from R. Heller.[13]

This emendation is actually mentioned previously by R. Meir Soloveitchik in his Ha-Meir la-Aretz, p. 64a.[14] Here is the title page of the book.

R. Soloveitchik, after mentioning the emendation, offers his own alternative emendation:

ועוד נל יותר טוב להגיהעיר שאין בה חזירים כו‘, דטנופת הרבה מצוי בה והול כמקום שהתינוקות מצוין בה

Before people start trying to figure out how this R. Soloveitchik is related to R. Chaim, let me note that there was at least one other Soloveitchik family in Europe, and this family was not levi’im like the more famous Soloveitchik family. R. Meir Soloveitchik came from the less distinguished Soloveitchiks.[15]

4. In my last post I dealt with euthanasia and suicide, and in response to that Ariel Fuss sent me something that I found truly astounding. If you had described it to me without me seeing it “inside”, I would have thought it was Purim Torah, or perhaps a halakhic paradox of the sort I have written about.[16] But no, we are talking about a real piece of rabbinic learning. Here is R. Mordechai Shlomo Carlebach, Havatzelet ha-Sharon, Vayikra (2), pp. 476-477.

R. Carlebach assumes that suicide falls under the prohibition of murder. While there are those who disagree (see Encyclopedia Talmudit, s. v. me’abed atzmo le-da’at), the majority opinion is that suicide is a form of murder, and this seems to be Maimonides’ opinion as well. R. Carlebach raises the issue of what to do if you see someone about to commit suicide. When someone is about to murder another, there is an obligation to kill the rodef. If suicide is a form of murder, R. Carlebach reasons that one who is going to kill himself is to be regarded as a rodef (of himself) and according to the halakhah you would be obligated to kill the man before he killed himself.

At first glance this seems crazy, since what sense does it make to kill a man because he is going to kill himself? But as R. Carlebach points out, by killing the man before he kills himself, you prevent him from violating the prohibition against murder, which will be a great benefit to him in the World to Come. R. Carlebach notes that when he presented this idea to R. Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, R. Auerbach liked what he said. Of course, it is impossible for us to know whether R. Auerbach really took the argument seriously or just smiled because it is such an interesting and counterintuitive approach.

When I shared this text with R. Moshe Maimon, and wondered whether R. Carlebach meant what he wrote seriously, he replied:

I think he means it seriously, though in a Talmudic sense, not in a practical sense. RSZA similarly approved it from a pilpulistic standpoint, knowing that R. Carlebach was in no way insinuating that this should dictate practical Halachah. To the halachic mind it is a form of mercy killing, since you are saving him from the sin of murder. Of course, practically, it could never be implemented since the modern sensibilities (at least from the Besamim Rosh and on!) dictate that one committing suicide be viewed as a victim rather than a perpetrator.

Speaking of the laws of rodef, there is another astounding passage in R. Shimon Sofer, Hitorerut Teshuvah, vol. 2, no. 157:2. R. Sofer states that if you see a cat chasing after a chicken to kill it, if the only way you can save the chicken is by killing the cat, then there is a mitzvah to kill the cat. He actually compares this to the law of rodef with a human. (At the end of the responsum he also mentions hashavat avedah and tza’ar baalei hayyim.)

See, however, R. Netanel Meoded of Hong Kong, Mizrah Shemesh, vol. 2, p. 287 n. 195, that R. Shlomo Zalman Auerbach rejected the notion that there is a concept of rodef with regard to animals.

Regarding R. Sofer’s Hitorerut Teshuvah, the volumes are unusual as right at the top of each page it tell the reader not to rely on the halakhic conclusions in practice. I don’t know of any other responsa volume that does such a thing. In a future post I will cite sources that say that one does not need to pay attention when an author tells us not to rely on his rulings in practice.

5. Continuing with the new pictures of R. Jehiel Jacob Weinberg, here is one of him and Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog.[17] It is from R. Herzog’s visit to Montreux in the summer of 1950.

Here is R. Weinberg in conversation with R. Bezalel Rakow, at the time a rebbe in the Montreux yeshiva and later the rav of Gateshead.

Here is R. Weinberg with Robert and Francisca Goldschmidt at the wedding of their daughter Reine to Schmuel Höchster. The Goldschmidts owned a kosher pension in Montreux and their grandson is the famous R. Pinchas Goldschmidt.

Here is R. Weinberg with Mr. Yechezkel Rand and his wife. Rand was a leader of the Montreux Jewish community.

Here is R. Weinberg with his student R. Yaakov Fink. R. Fink was able to leave Germany and make his way to Argentina in 1939. He would later serve as chief rabbi of Brazil and later of Argentina before becoming av beit din in Haifa.

The story of his aliyah is of interest. Already in 1950 he discussed moving to Israel with the Hazon Ish. He was concerned about whether this was proper since he felt a responsibility to his community in Argentina. The Hazon Ish told him without hesitation that he should come to Israel. He thought that the education of R. Fink’s children, which was problematic in the Diaspora, came before all other concerns, and therefore he – and anyone else – who could come on aliyah should do so.

Interestingly, on returning home he first traveled to the United States where he also discussed the matter of his aliyah with R. Aharon Kotler. R. Kotler had the opposite approach, telling him that he must not abandon his community. Perhaps to let him know that he should not give up all hope of aliyah, R. Kotler added that when he himself goes to Israel, then R. Fink can also come.

Years later R. Fink decided to move to Israel, after being chosen as av beit din of Haifa. He had obviously decided not to follow R. Kotler’s opinion in this matter. Yet an amazing thing was to happen. R. Fink flew to Europe with his family and spent a few weeks in Montreux with R. Weinberg, whom he had not seen since before World War II. The pictures above and below are from that visit. He then went to Paris from where he was to fly to Israel. When he boarded the plane, and saw more religious travelers than usual, he inquired what the occasion was. It was then that he learned of the passing of R. Aharon Kotler and that his coffin was being brought to Israel on that very plane. So in the end it happened just as R. Kotler told him years before, that when he would go to Israel then R. Fink could also go![18]

Here is a picture of R. Weinberg with R. Fink on the left. On the right is R. Joseph Blumenfeld who held the position of av beit din in Tel Aviv. He also lived in the United States during the 1950s and while there he printed his edition and commentary of the medieval work Kaftor va-Ferah by R. Ishtori ha-Parhi.

Here is the title page as it appears on Otzar ha-Chochmah.

Notice how the original place and date is missing and ניו יורק תשיח has been added to the title page. That should raise everyone’s suspicions. If you look at the version on hebrewbooks.org you can see why the original place and date were removed.

On the title page R. Blumenfeld wrote שנה עשירית למדינת ישראל. This can still be read on the copy found on hebrewbooks.org, although someone crossed this out, not liking R. Blumenfeld’s Zionist sentiments. 

Here is another example of the title page that I copied many years ago in the library of the Jewish Theological Seminary.

While in the United States, R. Blumenfeld obviously got to know Louis Finkelstein. When his work appeared he sent him a copy with a nice inscription and Finkelstein donated it to the library. The inscription might imply that Finkelstein assisted him financially in publishing the work.

Regarding R. Fink, although R. Weinberg thought very highly of him,[19] there was one time when R. Fink disappointed him. In 1952 when he was appointed chief rabbi in Brazil there was an article on this in Ha-Pardes.[20] Although the article is signed by someone else, R. Weinberg believed that the biographical information in it was provided by R. Fink. In describing R. Fink’s background it states:

תלמיד מובהק של הרב הגאון ה‘ אברהם שטיינברג מברודישאצלו למד בשעה שישב בעיר הבירה וינהבשנות המלחמה הראשונה ואז שמש גם את הגאון העצום ר‘ יוסף אנגל וגדולי ישראל אחריםמשומעי שעוריו של הרב יחיאל וינברגהעילוי מסלובודקה בסמינר הרבנים בברלין

R. Weinberg wrote to R. Joseph Apfel, R. Fink’s classmate at the Berlin Rabbinical Seminary, with his annoyance at the above formulation. He assumed that R. Fink, having moved into more haredi circles, was embarrassed to acknowledge that he had been an actual registered student at the Berlin Rabbinical Seminary, and therefore wrote that he just attended R. Weinberg’s shiurim at the Seminary.[21] In an earlier post on the Seforim Blog here, Menachem Butler notes that when R. Yosef Zvi Dunner passed away, the obituary in Ha-Modia wrote:

At 19 he wanted to study in the yeshivos of Lithuania, but his father felt that due to the shortage of Rabbanim in Germany, it would be better for him to remain in the country and study in the beis medrash of Harav Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg, zt”l, author of Seridei Eish. For four years, the young Rav Yosef Tzvi studied in this beis medrash, where he was awarded semichah at a young age after astounding those testing him with his penetrating understanding of all four sections of the Shulchan Aruch. He was granted the title yoreh, yadin.

Instead of writing that R. Dunner studied at the Berlin Rabbinical Seminary, Ha-Modia invented a new institution, the beis medrash of R. Weinberg.

This is a phenomenon we have sometimes seen with people who studied at Yeshiva University and/or RIETS but in later years did not want to acknowledge this. At most they would say that they heard shiurim from the Rav, without noting that they were actually registered students in YU or RIETS.

Returning to the pictures, here is a one of R. Weinberg’s father.

Here is his mother.

Here is R. Weinberg’s mother and other members of his family at his father’s grave in Ciechanowiec, Poland.

6. In the latest Hakirah (vol. 35, Summer 2024), R. Shmuel Lesher mentions Chaim Bloch’s Passover Haggadah forgery. Bloch claimed to have had a 1521 manuscript where instead of “Pour out your wrath on the nations that do not know you”, the mansucript had, “Pour out your love on the nations that know you”. This is such an obvious forgery, from a person whose forgeries have become legendary (see my post here, R. Jonathan Sacks included this forged text in his own Haggadah.

On p. 286 n. 12 Lesher states that assuming Bloch’s Haggadah passage is a forgery, the motivation for the forgery remains unclear. Let me first state that there is no reason for “assuming” it is a forgery, as there is no doubt whatsoever. As for the motivation, this too is clear. Bloch was very interested in apologetics and softening anti-Gentile passages that appear in the Talmud and later rabbinic literature. He even devoted an entire (very dishonest) book to this topic, Ve-Da Mah She-Tashiv (New York, 1962). In my post here I include a page from Bloch’s Heikhal le-Divrei Hazal u-Fitgameihem (New York, 1948), p. 9. Here Bloch invents an entire story about how before the war there was a collection of letters in Vienna dealing with the sections of the Talmud that were removed by non-Jewish censors. He tells us that R. Elazar Horowitz wrote a letter to R. Judah Aszod stating that R. Moses Sofer did not wish to print a Talmud with the censored sections. The reason R. Sofer supposedly gave was that it was divine providence that these passages were removed, and once they have been removed they should not be put back. Based on additional imaginary letters, Bloch tells us more fairy tales about other nineteenth-century rabbinic leaders who agreed that the censored passages should remain out, because of the antisemitism that could be generated by them.

Bloch’s forgery of the Gentile-friendly “Pour out your love” passage is no different than his other forgeries dealing with rabbinic texts that present a negative view of non-Jews and that were often cited in non-Jewish attacks on the Talmud and rabbinic literature.

* * * * * *

[1] See Menachem Keren-Kratz, “Satmar and Neturei Karta: Jews Against Zionism,” Modern Judaism 43 (Feb., 2023), pp. 66ff.
[2] Mesorat Moshe, vol. 2, p. 432.
[3] It could be that my language, implying that their current behavior is worse than a hillul ha-shem, is inappropriate, as in some respects hillul ha-shem is the worst imaginable sin. See Yoma 86a that unlike other sins, only death can atone for hillul ha-shem. The Hazon Ish pointed out that the three great sins for which one must martyr oneself rather than violate could indeed be pushed aside (i.e., violated) in order to prevent a hillul ha-shem. (Obviously, this type of decision is only something that the greatest rabbinic leaders could rule on.) See Shlomo Cohen, Pe’er ha-Dor, vol. 3, p. 185.

R. Samuel Mohilever writes:

חלול ה‘ היותר גדול המאריך גלותנו והמעכב גאולתנו ופדות נפשנו הוא אשר על ידי רוע מעשינו יחולל כבוד אומתנו בגוים לאמרראו מעשה העם הזהאשר לפי דעתו הוא הנבחר מכל גויי הארצות להיות לעם סגולה עליון על כלומעשיו גרועים ואבדה חכמת חכמיו ודעתו שפלה וגם באמונתו ערב אמונות שוא וטפל ועוד הגדיל כי עשה את הטפל לעיקר

Mohilever, Berit ha-Ahavah ve-ha-Shalom, ed. Munitz (Jerusalem, 2023), p. 210.

Here is one way hillul ha-shem was dealt with in years past: R. Hayyim Joseph David Azulai, Ma’agal Tov ha-Shalem, ed. Freimann (Jerusalem, 1934) p. 88, mentions how the leaders of the Jewish community in Modena, Italy cut off the beard of a rabbi who created a hillul ha-shem. See the explanation of the passage in R. Meir Mazuz, Mi-Gedolei Yisrael, vol 1, p. 218. As R. Mazuz notes, punishing someone by cutting off his hair is mentioned in Beit Yosef, Even ha-Ezer 16, s.v. כתוב and Shulhan Arukh, Even ha-Ezer 16:4. I do not know if this only means hair of the head or if it also includes the beard. Aaron Chorin, who would later become a leading advocate of religious reform, was also threatened with having his beard cut off. See R. Nosson Dovid Rabinowich, Safra ve-Sayfa (Jerusalem, 2013), pp. 139 n. 37, 171.

Hillul ha-shem is sometimes written as hillul ha-Shem or hillul Hashem. Yet this is a mistake. It is not Hashem (with a capital “H”, implying “God, or ha-Shem), but hashem, (or ha-shem). That is, it is not a desecration of God but of His name. Thus, one should not write ‘חילול ה but rather חילול השם. See Lev. 22:32: ולא תחללו את שם קדשי. Nissim Dana titled his 1989 translation of one of R. Abraham Maimonides’ works ספר המספיק לעובדי השם. Yet the last two words should be לעובדי ה.

Regarding the use of “Hashem”, I found something very confusing in the ArtScroll Stone Chumash. In place of the Tetragrammaton, ArtScroll does not use the word “Lord” but “HASHEM”, as this is how people pronounce the Tetragrammaton. While ArtScroll is the first translation to adopt this approach, it does have a certain logic. However, this logic breaks down a few times on p. 319 when the ArtScroll commentary attempts to explain what occurs at the beginning of parashat Va-Era. For example, “Or Ha-Chaim comments that God’s essence is represented by the name HASHEM.” This makes no sense, as there is no name HASHEM. The commentary should have written that “God’s essence is represented by the four letter name of God.”

Here is what Maimonides says about one who separates himself from the community, and it certainly applies to Neturei Karta (Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Teshuvah 3:11):

A person who separates himself from the community even though he has not transgressed any sins, but has separated himself from the congregation of Israel and does not fulfill mitzvot together with them, does not take part in their hardships or join in their [communal] fasts, but rather goes on his own individual path as if he is from another nation and not one of them [the Jewish people], does not have a portion in the world to come

[4] The version that appears in Midrash Tannaim, Devarim, ed. Hoffmann, p. 7, has the name as ארווס. However, as R. David Zvi Hoffmann points out, this is an error for אריוס. See ibid., pp. 250, 253. The version that appears in the medieval Bereshit Rabbati of R. Moses ha-Darshan, ed. Albeck, p. 201, has the name אריסטו. I think it is obvious that not recognizing the name Arius, someone changed it to Aristotle, without realizing that Aristotle (fourth century BCE) lived hundreds of years before R. Yose (second century CE). See also here.

Regarding Aristotle, while some traditional Jewish sources speak highly of his learning, others refer to him in all sorts of negative ways. R. Joseph Solomon Delmedigo, in his praise of R. Elijah Mizrahi, actually compares his intellect to that of Aristotle. I do not know of any other such passage in rabbinic literature in which a rabbi is praised by comparing him to Aristotle. See Delmedigo, Novelot ha-Hokhmah, p. 32b:

ששכל הראם רם ונשא . . . כשכל ארסטוט בדקות ועומק ויושר

See also R. Meir Mazuz’s comment on this passage, Mi-Gedolei Yisrael, vol. 1, p. 359 n. 27.

[5]  See here and here (the first of three parts).
[6] “The Historical Significance of the Dialogues between Jewish Sages and Roman Dignitaries,” Scripta Hierosolymitana 22 (1971), p. 149.
[7] The word is pronounced kil’ayim and not kilayim, as there is a sheva under the ל. People sometimes mispronounce it as kilaim, as if there is a patah under the ל and a hirik under the א of כלאים. This reminds me of another common mistake. If you google you will find that many refer to the concept of “shomer pesaim (petaim).” Yet this is a mistake. The verse in Psalms 116:6 reads: שֹׁמֵר פְּתָאיִם. The second word is pronounced pesayim (petayim), as the א is silent. Another example where the א is silent and many people make a mistake is with the name דניאל. Even people who have this name often pronounce it in Hebrew as Doniel (or Doniellah for women). Yet the name is properly pronounced Doniyel: דָּנִיֵּאל. This is unlike the name אֲרִיאֵל where the tzere is under the א and the word is pronounced Ariel. Another common mistake is that people often refer to sidelocks at peyot, but it should be pe’ot, as there is no yud in the word.
[8] In 1876 R. Abraham Bick published Yesod Ohel Moed. I cannot tell you where the book appeared, as there are two title pages, one for Pressburg and one for Lemberg.

The language on the title page is very unusual in its detail of what the book contains. On p. 53b he rejects R. Lifshitz’s identification of the orangutan with a creature mentioned in the Jerusalem Talmud, stating that he has seen an orangutan at the Hamburg zoo and it does not match the talmudic description. He then makes the following statement, affirming the truth of the Sages’ scientific statements even if modern man has trouble accepting them:

וקבלת חזל נאמנה מאוד ולא ראינו אינה ראי‘ ונודע שחוקרי הארץ לא יכלו לתור תיכונית אפריקא וגם במציאות בני אדם באמעריקא נוכח כפות רגלינו הכחישו כולם עד שנודע שידיעתם הבל וגם פה חזל ידעו הכל בסוד ה‘ ליראיו

[9] Ha-Mitzpeh, Oct. 25, 1912, pp. 4-5, Nov. 1, 1912, pp. 4-5, Nov. 15, 1912, p. 5, Nov. 22, 1912, p. 5.
[10]
See R. Mordechai Menahem Honig’s learned note in Yerushatenu 1 (2007), p. 213 n. 43, which provides all the relevant information about the Piskei Tosafot passage and how this idea is also cited from the ירושלמי. See also Saul Lieberman, Ha-Yerushalmi ki-Feshuto, Introduction, pp. 26-27; Daniel Sperber, Minhagei Yisrael, vol. 8, pp. 97-98, n. 6.

Regarding laxity with mezuzot and the notion that a city with pigs is exempt, see R. Aaron ha-Kohen of Lunel, Orhot Hayyim, ed. Schlesinger (Berlin, 1902), vol. 2, p. 195:

השתא שאין העולם נזהרין משום האי טעמא דסמכינן אהא דאמרינן עיר שיש בה חזירים פטורה מן המזוזהוכתב הרי מקורבל שאין זה נמצא בשום מקום לא בתלמוד ולא בירושלמי

[11] R. Eliezer Waldenberg, Tzitz Eliezer, vol. 5, no. 18, suggests another emendation: שער instead of עיר. See also R. Ovadiah Yosef, Yabia Omer, vol. 3, Yoreh Deah, no. 16.
[12] 
I treasure the conversations I had with Dr. Juda when I visited Toronto and he honored me by attending various talks I delivered. In one conversation he told me of the high esteem R. Hirschprung had for Rav Kook, and how R. Hirschprung noted that while R. Joseph Hayyim Sonnenfeld was certainly a great talmid chacham, in no way is he to be regarded as on the same level as R. Kook. Regarding R. Hirschprung, let me also record what I heard from R. Shlomo Goren in 1985, when he spoke at Beit Midrash le-Torah (BMT) in Jerusalem, that R. Hirschprung was the only one alive who knew the entire Talmud by heart.
[13] Tikunei Nushaot bi-Yerushalmi, last page of the book (unnumbered; called to my attention by Moshe Dembitzer).
[14] Moshe Dembitzer informed me that R. Moses Shimon Sivitz, Ha-Mashbiah, vol. 3, p. 53b, also suggests this emendation. R. Baruch Epstein, Barukh She-Amar, p. 75, likewise suggests this.
[15] See here. There was another famous Soloveitchik, Max Soloveitchik from Kovno, who wrote perhaps the earliest Hebrew book on biblical criticism and was a government minister in Lithuania. See here. I don’t know which Soloveitchik family he was from.
[16] See here.
[17] The pictures in this post are found in Ganzach Kiddush ha-Shem in Bnei Brak. I thank R. Abraham Abba Weingort for his help with identifying some of the people in the pictures from Montreux.
[18] Fink, Tiferet Yaakov, pp. 49, 56 (first pagination).
[19] See for instance R. Weinberg’s letter in Fink, Tiferet Yaakov, p. 348.
[20] November 1952, pp. 28-29.
[21] See R. Weinberg’s letter in Ha-Ma’yan 32 (Tamuz 5752), pp. 16-17. For a picture of R. Fink’s Berlin Rabbinical Seminary semikhah, see Fink, Tiferet Yaakov, p. 339. The semikhah is signed by R. Weinberg, R. Samuel Gruenberg, and R. Alexander (Shimon Zvi) Altmann.

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83 thoughts on “Neturei Karta; ArtScroll, Arius, and Orangutans; Suicide and the Law of Rodef

  1. I have cousins who are descendants of the non-Levi Soloveitchiks. I guess there goes the theory that their name is related to their status.

    Professor Herr is our downstairs neighbor!

    1. There are a LOT of people named Cohen who are not cohanim, and that name is undoubtedly related to the status.

      Which is not to say the theory does or does not have any validity in the case of Soloveitchik (I have no idea).

      1. “Soloveitchik” means “nightingale” in Russian, and is said to point to the role of Leviim as the singers in the Beit HaMikdash. Of course, that might be a folk etymology, or may not.

        Rav Soloveitchik would joke that when the Mikdash would be rebuilt, he’d be among the Leviim in charge of watching the doors, as he famously couldn’t sing to save his life. 🙂

  2. Its very easy to beat up on Neturei Karta, who nobody defends, but why can’t you ask the same questions (“can they count for a minyan?”) about those who supported Oslo, or the Gaza expulsion? Unlike NK, who have always been marginal cartoon figures, these people were taking real actions, which led directly to the deaths of thousands of thousands of Jews. Sure they thought they were doing the right thing, but so do the NK. Any distinction you can come up with would be immaterial.

    1. There is a difference between someone who honestly thinks that the peace process will result in peace, vs Neturei Karta who know and accept that their support aids in Jews dying and more war.

      1. How do you know that Neturei Karta know and accept that their support aids in Jews dying? The ones that I spoke to actually belive that they’re saving jewish lives.

        1. Gentlemen
          A gut voch a few points
          1 my mentor rabbi domb who was head of netrui karta was against going with the Arabs he used to say we need to go to the Arabs explaining that Zionism is opposed to Judaism but we are not allowed to go with Arabs to demonstrate against Zionism and in his last years when he heard that certain Arab countries denied the holocaust then he was against neuturai karta going to these countries and meeting their leaders

          2 Regarding rav kreishwirth bekius rabbi domb told me that in Lublin yeshiva the bokui was Pinches dukler which was the name of rabbi pinchus hirsprung

          3 regarding rav kuk I have heard from a gabbai of the tshbiner gaon then after the tsubiner rov saw rabbi Charlap he said looks like what they said in the heim about rav kuk was not true on the other in the dairy of rabbi shimon hirschler of Pressburg who Visited eretz yisroel in the late twenties quotes rabbi yosef chaim sonnfeld as saying that rav kuk is like a Bolshevik in his views

          To end with a story that happend in Stamford hill by a bar mitzvah one of the people who was invited was reb avrhom grohman a nurture Karta actvist who had met a Arab leader who was anti Israel not long before the bar mitzvah and the guests by the simcha were shouting throw him out of the simcha so reb avrhom turned to the rabbonim sitting by the simcha and said let’s say that Bibi Netanyahu would meet this Arab leader would anybody shout on him so the only problem is that I am a frum yid and bibi is not

          I have published a Shem hagedolim of rabbi in England with the names beginning with aleph in Hebrew who lived in the uk from 1880 till 1940 whoever wants a copy please send me a email maurice@pallmallestates.co uk with a address and it will be sent free of charge
          Gut voch

          1. Um, because Bibi doesn’t want to destroy Israel and the Neturei Karta do.

            You do no service to R’ Sonnenfeld by quoting such libels in his name. (Especially if he really said them, which is unlikely: R’ Sonnenfeld had a lot of respect for R’ Kook, and vice versa.)

    2. Interesting question – do we judge by results or by intent? (eg did the sanhedrin make a mistake if they thought a takanna would be accepted by the masses and it turned out not to be?)
      bsorot tovot kvct

    3. The Oslo and expulsion supporters are not trotted out by Arabs regularly, like NK are regularly on various media and other extremely hurtful forums.
      (Neither are the (claimed) Arabs who support Israel.)

      Plus the Holocaust denial support.

      1. Of course the Arabs dont say anything about Oslo and the Gaza expulsion, they’re still laughing, sadly, at Jewish naivete.

        Point of all this is that yes, the NK are foolish and stupid, but they are far from the only Jews to do stupid things, and their nonsense has never led to the deaths of anyone, unlike others. Furthermore, the NK at least lead observant Jewish lives. Most of the Jews who enthusiastically gave away Eretz Yisrael to our enemies, on the other hand, much better fit the Rambam’s paradigm of “do not fulfill mitzvot together with them, does not take part in their hardships or join in their [communal] fasts.” I’d like to see Marc wondering if these “traitors” (his words) can be part of a minyan.

    4. Those who supported Oslo or the Gaza Expulsion, although it was ultimately proved to be a bad idea, cannot be compared to NK members who support the Iranian regime in Holocaust denial, or at least Holocaust minimization. In my opinion, this can be compared to those who bring their fellow Jews to gentile courts, as they take a conflict that should be kept within Judaism to the Iranian regime.

      Rishon le Zion Mordechai Eliyahu z”l also suggested that any observant Jews who supported the failed Gaza expulsion should do teshuva. How much more so for Jews who support the Iranian regime?

  3. I was also confused by your comments on Rav Benamozegh. You are known as a fierce critic of censorship in the orthodox world, but you seem so surprised that Rav Benamozegh would even address, let alone express an opinion in support of, something some people today might find “offensive” or be made “uncomfortable” by. What happened to intellectual honesty?

    1. Where do you see that I am surprised by anything? I simply state that what he writes makes for uncomfortable reading today.

      1. You specifically refered to his “even-handed” manner. Isn’t that exactly what a scholar should be? Deal with an argument instead of screaming “raaaacist!” (And who knows, maybe it’s correct.)

        Of course you’re correct that people will be upset. But the snowflakes are triggered by everything these days, even the very word “Israel.” I’m upset reading about massacres of Jews, but I don’t see the need to add a caveat.

  4. Thank you for an amazing post!

    Regarding Chaim Bloch, I immediately knew that he did it for apologetic reasons since I’m just in the middle of his היכל למאמרי חז”ל (which is rich with other bizarre stories and dreams). I think that this apologetic push can also be his motive for the forgery of the letters against Zionism since he thought that it brings antisemitism.

  5. I don’t think that the intent of the Hisorerus Teshuvah is that the law of rodef applies to an animal. Rather, it is solely because of צער בע”ח or השבת אבידה, as he concludes. The reference to rodef is to demonstrate a common principle that one’s obligation to protect something (whether a person or an animal) applies even at the cost of the life of the threat. For לא תעמוד על דם ריעך this would be applied as eliminating a person; for צב”ח or השבת אבידה, it would be applied to eliminating an animal.
    This seems the smoother reading than the one Marc presents.

  6. “can such people be counted to a minyan? Are you allowed to give charity to them, and if not, how about the children who will suffer through no fault of their own?”
    You don’t really explain the shaila. Based on what shouldn’t they be counted for a minyan?

    1. 1. Rav Aron Kotler lived part time in Yerushalayim from the mid 50s on (when he inherited the RYship from his FIL
      1B. While that yeshiva still exists, is it an almost nothing place?
      Might be worth a post (formerly big or otherwise prestigious yeshivot that are almost nothing today, or otherwise in history).

      2. Was Rabbi Fink succeeding the Ljublianer /Partzover /Munkatch Rebbe as CR?

      3. The Pressburg edition calls the author a professor, while the Lemberg edition names a printer.

      4. I understand RIETS did not permit “auditing” the Rav’s shiur, though there were exceptions — Rav Schneur K (confirmation denied), the gentleman who innocently asked the Rav to give shiur in English (let’s just say he’s been discredited for other reasons). Whom else?

      5. You overlook Moshe Hirsch as first leader of NK, a colorful character in his own right.

      6. There is a halacha that an animal that is suffering should be euthanized. Secular practice is similar.

      7.

    2. These people don’t daven with “goyim” like you and me.
      Somehow or other, people give them money. I’d like to know whom?

      2. When the Weiss character returned from Iran Holocaust conference, he was thrown out of (Sharf’s) hotel in Boro Park on Shabbat. They let his wife and children stay till after Shabbat when they made other arrangements.
      The wife was convinced to divorce him, he agreed to give a get, but the wife changed her mind, took him back a few days later.

      3. Another one’s children were thrown out of Belz schools in Antwerp, he sued the school (government supported) but lost. I believe his daughter went on to Belgian law school and is a member of Belgian Bar today.

  7. I really REALLY don’t get the point of publicizing things that various rabbis have said in the past which are regarded as extremely offensive in this era.

    The juxtaposition of being in the same post in which NK propaganda is attacked as potentially harmful, is especially ironic.

    1. Quoting (without translation) one random rabbi who said something offensive 150 years ago, based on what was accepted science in his time, does basically no harm to Jews or Judaism. It’s completely incomparable to praising and encouraging terror attacks against Jews.

  8. I believe R’ Michel Shurkin did in fact regularly hear shiurim from RYBS without ever being enrolled in RIETS.

  9. Regarding the use of of Hashem in ArtScroll texts, I find it very troubling and a stumbling block for those who did not speak Hebrew natively. The English translation is intended for use in prayer and in study, where the name of God is to be pronounced as “Ad*nai.”

    In fact, the siddur introduction directs the reader to do so as they pray or in study in English. But who reads introductions? And who can readily train themselves to do so every time Hashem appears in a text?

    It serves no purpose to substitute for the holy Name, considering that the proper word appears everywhere on the Hebrew side of the text, and it misleads those who pray in English into reciting empty prayers.

    I have yet to hear a satisfactory explanation from either ArtScroll or any of the rabbis I have asked this question.

    As gabbai during the Yomim Noraim I caution all of my English-speaking congregants to make the proper substitution as they pray, but I know it’s difficult for them, and that is frustrating for me.

    1. והנראה בזה דבר חידוד – And the apparent explanation [of the Minchas Chinuch] is “a sharfe zach”, an answer that takes a sharp twist. This does not mean that R. Carlebach is only offering this כדי לחדד את התלמידים, as you seem to imply, rather he is conceding that it is not an answer that readily suggests itself simply, but one that involves a degree of ingenuity.

      Of note, he doesn’t describe the chiddush under discussion this way, but rather the application thereof to the ruling of the Minchas Chinuch vis a vis an elder for whom it is beneath his dignity to save a drowning man. The ruling cited by Marc, and the one which R. Carlebach presented to R. Shlomo Zalman, is introduced simply as כתבתי במקום אחר.

    1. Right. Not at all.

      Besides for these few lunatic fringe NK people, there are also vast numbers of settler fanatics, who by their “facts on the ground” have locked Israel into a completely untenable long-term situation. Despite whatever number of terrorists (and “terrorists”) the IDF manages to blow up, the long term trend lines are increasingly ominous.

      But not that these people care. With a combination of R’ Kook-inspired Zionist messianism, and all purpose Zionist כוחי ועוצם ידי, they brazen it out and provoke the situation, while – apparently – getting angry at other people who are reluctant to imperil both body and (mainly) soul in order to fight the wars that they imposed on the people.

      1. I thought everyone knew by now that we are all considered settlers, whether in Judea or Otef Aza. Or is this Yair Golan writing under an assumed name?

    2. This is a general anti-giyus demonstration. Sponsored by Samar, BMG RYs, others (including the Rav’s great grandson, RY at TV). Endorsed by RYs in BB, etc.

      Was cancelled due to no permit issued by NJ State Police, can’t assure security (UN security council meeting having priority). Agudah trying to politically override State Police, but seems cancelled.

  10. Is it possible R. Sacks knew it was a forgery but included it in his Hagadah anyway, b/c he too (like Bloch) was interested in Jewish/Gentile relationship?

      1. When R’ Sacks cites the myth about spilling wine drops, he phrases it do artfully that it’s clear he knows it’s not true.

  11. >4. I understand RIETS did not permit “auditing” the Rav’s shiur, though there were exceptions ..>
    During my days in Rov’s shiur (1970-ish), room was completely packed (literally couldn’t negotiate a passage between the crammed student desks), and it was quite the eclectic mix between those officially registered to be there like myself, and a (motley?) mix of auditors – the already graduated, various hanger-ons, rebbes, occasional visitor parachuting in, ..etc. Don’t actually know but wouldn’t be surprised if comprised 1/4 – 1/2 those present.

  12. R’ Goren seems to have been unaware of R. Chaim Kreiswirth of Warsaw/Chicago/ Antwerp/Jerusalem. Contemporaries affirmed that at 18 he knew the entire Bavli and Yerushalmi verbatim, and he passed away in 2001.

  13. Another person who also knew the entire Talmud (plus) by heart was R’ Moshe Feinstein. Although perhaps in 1985 his memory had weakened. In any event, it would have made no sense for R’ Goren to have said R’ Hischprung was the only such person, since there were undoubtedly other such people and it’s not like R’ Goren had a way of knowing about all such people anyway.

    Speaking of RMF, he also shared R’ Hirschprung’s view that R’ Kook was a much bigger talmid chochom than RYC Zonnenfeld. (I know a person who spoke to him about it and was told this in pretty strong terms. This person asked RMF what about all the strange things associated with R’ Kook, and RMF responded it’s probably all not true.)

    1. I always assumed that R. Ovadiah knew the Talmud by heart, but that R. Goren, due to their many disagreements, did not want to mention him. They say Lieberman knew the Talmud by heart but he wasn’t alive in 1985.

      1. When the gedolim referred to “knowing shas by heart” they meant something different than when the average person uses that term.

        I know when my grandfather said someone was a “Gaon”, a phrase he used sparingly, it wasn’t the same way the average person used it.

    2. RMF had no connection to either R. Kook or R. Sonnenfeld, and I am certain he knew very little about their lives and views. So I wonder if he was just naturally inclined to favor the Lithuanian gadol over the Hungarian gadol. RMF would have also been swayed by the fact that his rebbe, R. Isser Zalman was a big supporter of R. Kook and had nothing to do with R. Sonnenfeld and his community.

      When the Hazon Ish first came to Eretz Yisrael he addressed a halakhic question to Rav Kook. I think he did so because of the connection to Rav Kook by R. Chaim Ozer and the fact that Rav Kook was a fellow Litvak and regarded by the Litvaks as “the rav”. A few years later, after having lived in Eretz Yisrael, I am certain the Hazon Ish would have preferred to ask the question of R. Sonnenfeld (if he was alive).

      1. That’s all possible. But it’s also possible that ideology aside R’ Kook was in fact a much bigger talmid chochom than RYC Zonnenfeld, and that those who were less ideologically inclined tended to recognize this.

        1. Years back, on one of the chapters of Yehoshua Mondshine’s series סיפורים וגלגוליהם, someone commented that his grandfather, a member of an old-line Yerushalmi family (and not part of either R. Sonnenfeld’s or R. Kook’s circle), used to say matter-of-factly that R. Sonnenfeld was “a good decider of practical halachah (גוטער מורה הוראה),” while R. Kook was “an amazing gaon (געוואלדיגער גאון).”

  14. Re A. Rosenberg, I wonder if it’s possible that this was actually a pseudonym for R’ Heller himself. Possibly if he had something that he hadn’t worked on thoroughly enough that he was willing to publish under his own name, he would use the pseudonym.

    1. The problem with this suggestion is that Rosenberg’s book is full of plagiarisms and I am operating under the assumption that RCH would not do this.

      1. On the other hand, it does fit in with everything else.

        So I wonder if it’s possible that R’ Heller might have felt that plagiarism under a pseudonym is not really plagiarism, since his expectation was that he himself would never get any credit for the material.

        That said, I agree it’s an argument against the theory.

  15. re the din rodef to kill an imminent suicide: it seems to me that if the proximate result of his act is his being killed, that is essentially a successful suicide, so you haven’t really accomplished anything.

    1. Do you mean that killing the מאבד עצמו לדעת would not save the מאבד עצמו לדעת from the עבירה of מאבד עצמו לדעת since given that you are only killing him because he is trying to be מאבד עצמו לדעת it comes out that he is still responsible for his own death? Sorry for the clumsy formulation.

  16. “Yet the name is properly pronounced Doniyel”

    Am I correct that this is because the name is an Aramaic one, yet if one were to adopt the Hebrew translation of the name, it would be pronounced Doniel?

      1. I would think that the prophet Yechezkail’s name was Hebrew, yet the tzeireh is also under the quf. Same with various other names.

    1. How is the name Aramaic? It occurs elsewhere in Tanach, for example a son of David, where no Aramaic would have been present.

      (And Daniel has an entirely different Akkadian name.)

      Half the book is Aramaic, but even in the Hebrew portions the name is Daniyel.

      Da’at Mikrah has a discussion on this.

      1. You are correct, but a complicating factor to the name is Ezekiel 14:14 and 14:20, where we see preserved maybe an older form דנאל

  17. Back in the day when one of the ArtScroll Sapirstein editions of the Rashi came out, I sent a list of 18 mistakes to Rabbi Avie Gold. He replied that really there are only 17, since I was incorrect for correcting him regarding the tzere under the yud and not the aleph. Incidentally, the early ArtScrolls did have the tzere under the aleph, but someone must have corrected that at some point.

  18. For those who appreciate R Carlebach’s aforementioned dvar Torah, I have an interesting addendum (בדרך חידוד!!):
    Rav Meir Schmulevitz shlit”a, the youngest son of R Chaim, is a brilliant Dayan and Chief Editor of Encyclopedia Talmudit. When he was a bochur in Mir Yeshiva, – for the fun of it – he thought up a scheme how to manufacture a gun based on the “geramma principle”, and would therefore cause the shooter not to transgress לא תרצח. Noone in the beis midrash could refute his idea, until another iluy responded that shooting someone with the gun would still be prohibited since the shooter would be transgressing ואהבת לרעך כמןך!! I would like to add, that based on all the above, the shooter of a would be suicide committer should use a “geramma” gun, since then he would not be transgressing לא תרצח, and also not ואהבת לרעך since the victim wants to die!

  19. The correction to עיר שיש בה חזירים seems very dubious.

    The post itself cites the matter to the Piskei Tosafos in one place, but footnote 10 notes it’s also found in a different source. But besides for those, it’s found in several other sources as well.

    1. פסקי תוס’ ערכין סי’ ז
    2. סמ”ג מ”ע כ”ג
    3. הגמי”י פ”ו הי”ג

    So that’s five places where this appears and it says עיר in all of them. The idea that the same mistake was made in all these places seems extremely unlikely.

    1. It is דוחק for a more basic reason, b/c the Gemara in Yoma says explicitly that animal stalls are exempt from mezuzah, so there would be no reason to specifically highlight and pattur up a pig sty. (And the Gemara there uses the word בית בקר not דיר.)

      RS Lieberman suggests (in somewhat veiled words) that חזירים means “wild gentiles”, vandals, and the idea is that in such cases the mezuzah need not be visible.

      1. Though I suppose one could argue that the two objections offset each other, and that בית בקר means an animal stall, but דיר שיש בה חזירים means a dwelling which is not primarily an animal stall but which also contains pigs. (In the first case the issue is that it’s not a human dwelling, and in the second it’s the presence of the pigs even in what is a human dwelling.)

        1. Post Script – this morning in Selichos I noticed #90 (Minhag Lita) says “ארבעה אבות נזיקים הם הארי והזאב והדוב וגוריהם, נמר שוקד על עריהם וחזיר עמהם, תן להם כפעלם ורע מעלליהם. Not conclusive, but seems to me RSL’s instincts may have been correct here, i.e., that chazir is a reference to wild gentiles. And he himself already cited the well-known Midrash comparing Esau to a chazir.

  20. The correction to עיר שיש בה חזירים seems very dubious.

    The post itself cites the matter to the Piskei Tosafos in one place, but footnote 10 notes it’s also found in a different source. But besides for those, it’s found in several other sources as well.

    1. פסקי תוס’ ערכין סי’ ז
    2. סמ”ג מ”ע כ”ג
    3. הגמי”י פ”ו הי”ג

    So that’s five places where this appears and it says עיר in all of them. The idea that the same mistake was made in all these places seems extremely unlikely.

  21. Perhaps related to the Tiferes Yisroel and science errors, I happened to come across just yesterday what seems like a weird error in a TY, having to do with the value of pi. עירובין פ”א מ”ה.

    The mishna says that anything with a circumference of 3 has a diameter of 1. The earlier commentators noted that pi is actually greater than 3 by about 1/7, and therefore something with a circumference of 3 would have a diameter slightly less than 1. But the TY flips it around, and says that anything with a circumference of 3 has a diameter of 1/7 GREATER than 1. (And it’s not a typo, because he says that the mishna’s approximation is a chumra – which it’s not, as discussed at some length in the תיו”ט.)

    Considering both the well known mathematical facts and the extensive discussion in earlier commentaries, it’s hard to see how this might have come about.

  22. Fascinating piece by Marc Shapiro, as usual: “Neturei Karta; ArtScroll, Arius, and Orangutans; Suicide and the Law of Rodef” – The Seforim Blog (September 18, 2024)
    Some notes:
    1) Regarding Arius: For a list of Greek names in Chazal, refer to my article here, “Greek and Latin Origin” (p. 86ff): From Abba to Zebedee: A Comprehensive Survey of Naming Conventions in the Mishnah, Talmud, and Late Antique Midrash. Notably, there was a 1st-century BCE Alexandrian philosopher named Arius, see Wikipedia, Arius_Didymus.
    In a recent article in Mehkerei Talmud, Geiger points out that the only instance of a quote from a Greek philosopher in rabbinic literature is from the Cynic philosopher Oenomaus of Gadara (אבנימוס הגרדי). See more here: “יוסף גייגר “מדוע אבנימוס הגרדי; and see אואנומאוס – ויקיפדיה
    2) If you see a cat chasing a chicken with intent to kill, and the only way to save the chicken is by killing the cat, there is a mitzvah to kill the cat.” He actually draws a parallel between this and the law of rodef concerning humans. Towards the end of the responsum, he also discusses hashavat aveidah (returning lost property) and tza’ar ba’alei chayim (preventing animal suffering).
    Compare this with the ethical concepts of “wildlife intervention ethics” or “intervention in nature ethics” as outlined here: Wikipedia, Wild animal suffering. Advocates argue that animal rights and welfare perspectives imply an obligation to assist animals suffering in the wild due to natural causes. Also, see Wikipedia, Wild Animal Ethics regarding the book Wild Animal Ethics: The Moral and Political Problem of Wild Animal Suffering (2020) by philosopher Kyle Johannsen, which examines whether humans, from a deontological viewpoint, have a duty to mitigate wild animal suffering.

    1. Correction:
      >”Geiger points out that the only instance of a quote from a Greek philosopher in rabbinic literature is from the Cynic philosopher Oenomaus of Gadara”
      Should say:
      “Geiger points out that the only Greek philosopher explicitly named in rabbinic literature is the Cynic philosopher Oenomaus of Gadara”

  23. It is confusing, because there is an Ariston אריסטון mentioned in Yerushalmi a few times, and in one case a question concerning Terumah he separated came before R. Yosi, the amora. אריסטון אייתי פירין ושייר גו שקא [גוסקא] ותרם אתא עובדא קומי ר”י ואמר חזקה על הכל תרם Terumos 3:2 (28a in Oz Vihadar). This might be the Arios and R. Yosi mentioned in Rashi. But there is also a certain אריסטון mentioned in the last mishna in Chalah, and there is also a generic use of the word in the sense of “aristocratic person” like at the end of Yeruslami yevamos, so there’s no real way to know.

    1. Plus, אריסטון also means “breakfast” or “main meal” (famously, in Akdamus there’s the line אריסטון לצדיקי יתקן ושירותא).

  24. Thank you for pointing out your other post about R. Bloch which I had not seen.
    In response:
    1) I agree my wording should have been more precise in my article. All agree shefokh ahavatkha is a forgery.
    2) You write that he was very interested in apologetics and softening anti-Gentile passages that appear in the Talmud and later rabbinic literature as he dedicated a whole book to it. What interests me is his motivation.
    His focus on this seems to be more than the typical rabbinic apologetics either for censors or to prevent antisemitism because, as you point out, he fabricates entire episodes, correspondences, and manuscripts.
    Perhaps it was like you said “the pleasure of watching everyone taken in by his creation.” However it seems like there was more at play than this.
    Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated.

  25. A young baal teshuva recently joined Toras Chaim Yeshiva in moscow (founded by Reb Moshe Soleveichik of Switzerland)
    The young man’s name was soleveichik and said his family was from Brisk
    R Moshe Lebel (current Rosh Yeshiva of TC moscow) got excited. especially due to the boys facial resemblance of the soleveichik family (specifically his nose)
    People involved with the russian yeshiva who were in Israel asked R AY Soleveichik if perhaps they have found a long lost relative
    He said that there were at least one other Soleveichik family in Brisk that they know about
    NOT RELATED

  26. My great-grandfather’s name was Soloveitchik and they were not Leviim. They were originally a Litvish family but were already in J-lem by the 1880’s, and probably earlier (can’t recall exact year offhand).

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