Rav Gorelick, the Rav, and Revision by Omission
Rav Gorelick, the Rav, and Revision by Omission
By: Yaacov Sasson
Many readers of the Seforim Blog no doubt remember Dr. Shapiro’s post from 2009, in which he documented a back-and-forth from the pages of the journal Or Yisrael, regarding whether Rav Yerucham Gorelick zt”l taught Gemara at Yeshiva University.[1] As a refresher, Or Yisrael (Num. 50, Tevet 5768, p. 39) published a summary of a shiur given by Rav Mordechai Leib Gorelick (son of Rav Yerucham), regarding the publication of the Talmud with translation and elucidation (presumably referring to Artscroll). Rav Gorelick argued that such translations are inappropriate, as they make learning Gemara too easy, and learning Gemara requires hard work and toil (ameilus). Furthermore, Talmud study had always been reserved for the elite, not the masses, who studied other topics like Mishnayos and Ein Yaakov; daf yomi study for the masses was only approved reluctantly by the Chafetz Chaim. But it is inappropriate to print these crutches to enable the masses to study the Talmud, which they are incapable of studying on their own.[2]
In a follow up in that same issue of Or Yisrael (p. 42), Rav Yehuda Heller of London raised some doubt about whether Rav Leib Gorelick really said what was attributed to him in Or Yisrael. In the course of attempting to show that Rav Leib never made these claims against English translations and daf yomi, Rav Heller mentioned that Rav Leib’s father, Rav Yerucham, taught Gemara in YU for many years, even though the students there did not meet the very rigorous conditions that Rav Leib required to qualify for learning Gemara. From this, Rav Heller attempted to demonstrate that Rav Leib did not actually say what was attributed to him.[3]
Rav Heller wrote a further follow-up in a later volume of Or Yisrael (Num. 57, Tishrei 5770, p. 255), in which he said that Rav Leib Gorelick told him that his father did not teach Gemara in YU, and he only taught hashkafa there.[4] This statement understandably prompted quite a response, as Dr. Shapiro criticized Rav Leib and these revisionist comments rather harshly. A number of other websites also made note of this episode and added their own criticisms.[5] A follow-up letter written by a former student of Rav Yerucham was also published in Or Yisrael (Num. 58, Tevet 5770, p. 248), titled איך החי יכול להכחיש את החי , in which the writer states that he studied Gemara, Rishonim and Acharonim with Rav Yerucham, as did thousands of other students.
The claim that Rav Yerucham never taught Gemara at YU/RIETS is clearly false. Yet, it would appear that no one followed up with Rav Leib to clarify his statement, or to confirm that he actually made the seemingly impossible statement that had been attributed to him. In a conversation I had with Rav Leib Gorelick this past summer, I took the opportunity to ask him about this claim that his father never taught Gemara there, and only taught hashkafa. Rav Leib immediately informed me that he was misquoted, and his father certainly taught Gemara at YU/RIETS. What he said was that his father’s goal in teaching Gemara at YU was not to teach Gemara per se, but was to impart hashkafa, mussar, and emuna to the talmidim; in Rav Leib’s own words, “He wasn’t teaching them daf yomi.” Recall that the original context of these statements was regarding the propriety of Artscroll English translations enabling the masses to study daf yomi. It was in this context that Rabbi Heller brought Rav Yerucham’s position in YU as a proof, and Rav Leib was responding to this argument, all in the context of English translations and daf yomi. Regarding this point, he was arguing that his father’s position at YU is not relevant to teaching daf yomi to the masses, because his father was using the Gemara as a vehicle to impart mussar and hashkafa.
Interestingly, Rav Hershel Schachter has expressed similar sentiments, but from the perspective of a student (academic year 1957-1958) of Rav Yerucham Gorelick[6]:
“Rabbi Gorelick used to give a shiur in the yeshiva, a regular shiur in Gemara, and he used to pepper his shiur with a lot of hashkafa, and a lot of mussar, emunah, he would say over a lot from the Nefesh Hachaim…The year that I was in Rabbi Gorelick’s shiur we learned Sanhedrin, I don’t remember anything that Rabbi Gorelick said about Sanhedrin, but I do remember all the Nefesh Hachaim’s that he said in the course of the year…I remember vertlach that he said from Rav Velvele on chumash…That’s what I remember from the year of learning by him. What he said on Gemara Sanhedrin I don’t remember. I remember what Rav Soloveitchik said, I don’t remember what Rabbi Gorelick said. But I remember all the Nefesh Hachaim’s that he said, and all the vertlach from Rav Velvele on the hagada, and all the vertlach on chumash that he said, and the stories that he told about Rav Velvele, that I remember, he used to tell over stories…”
If we could generalize from Rav Schachter’s experience, it would appear that Rav Yerucham Gorelick’s lasting impact on talmidim was mostly in line with how Rav Leib presented Rav Yerucham’s goals in teaching Gemara in YU.
There have been instances, however, in which Rav Gorelick’s association with YU has been omitted or glossed over. As an example, see the journal U’lYishrei Lev, volume 11, published in honor of the marriage of a son of Rav Shmuel Yeshaya Keller (son of the late Rav Chaim Dov Keller), to a granddaughter of Rav Chaim Ozer Gorelick, a great-granddaughter of Rav Yerucham.[7] This journal contains two letters from Rav Gorelick, which originally appeared in YU/RIETS Torah journals. One of them, shown below, בענין ח“ש בתרומה וריחא מילתא , was originally printed in Beis Yitzchak volume 25 p. 241, and was discovered and arranged for publication by the late Rabbi Joshua (posthumously known as The Hoffer) Hoffman.[8]
There is no mention in U’lYishrei Lev that this letter was found and published in Beis Yitzchak. Similarly, the other letter in U’lYishrei Lev, במצות הפרשת תרומות ומעשרות, was originally published in Kol Zvi volume 2 page 107. It is noteworthy that, in addition to the more recent family connection by marriage, Rav Yerucham Gorelick was Rav Chaim Dov Keller’s rebbe in YU. It was Rav Gorelick who encouraged Rav Keller to go to Telz, and arranged for Rav Keller to learn b’chavrusa with Rav Mordechai Gifter.[9]
The aforementioned letter בענין ח“ש בתרומה וריחא מילתא also appears in Mishor’s 5768 printing of חידושי הגר“ח על הש“ס on page 32, surprisingly with the disclosure that the piece is taken from Beis Yitzchak.[10] I say surprisingly, because this volume does engage in revision by omission in other cases, specifically those having to do with the Rav, Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik. Here is a piece from that volume (page 302) on the topic of אין שליח לדבר עבירה, which is attributed to the very nebulous “Reshimos Talmidim”, but is copied word-for-word from Igros Ha-Grid Halevi, page 9, ד“ה אכן, shown below.
Similarly, the piece in the Mishor volume (page 97) on מצות תקיעת שופר is once again attributed to the nebulous “Kisvei Talmidim”, yet is taken from Igros Ha-Grid Halevi, this time an amalgam of the pieces on page 33-34 and page 91, shown below. Most of the verbiage is taken from pages 33-34, while the phrases “אינו חל לגביה“ and “בכלל מתעסק“ are taken from page 91.
Another recent example of revision by omission as relates to Rav Soloveitchik appears in Yishurun, volume 41 (Elul 5779), in a biographical article on Rav Elya Baruch Finkel, on p. 388. There we are told of Rav Elya Baruch’s safek regarding Erev Shabbos Chanuka. The halacha (Rambam Chanuka 4:12) is that someone who does not have candles must even sell his garment in order to purchase Ner Chanuka. Rav Elya Baruch understood that there is no such requirement for Ner Shabbos according to the Rambam (see Yishurun volume 18 p. 675.[11] The article in Yishurun volume 18 also appears in Mishulchan Rabi Eliyahu Baruch- Moadim, volume 2, p. 283, where a note mentions that it was prepared for print by Rav Elya Baruch’s son.) The halacha (Rambam Chanuka 4:14) also states that someone with one candle on Erev Shabbos Chanuka should use it for Ner Shabbos, as Ner Shabbos takes precedence to Ner Chanuka. In the event that someone has no candles or money on Erev Shabbos Chanuka, he is obligated to sell his garment to buy a Ner Chanuka, but once he has the candle, he is supposed to give precedence to Ner Shabbos over Ner Chanuka, even though he is not obligated to sell his garment for Ner Shabbos. Rav Elya Baruch raised the question – should he use the candle for Ner Chanuka or for Ner Shabbos?
We are told in Yishurun that Rav Elya Baruch presented this question to גאון אחד who was נודע בכשרונותיו העילויים. This Gaon stated that there are three logical possibilities, and these possibilities are laid out in Yishurun volume 18 p. 677.[12] 1) He need not sell his garment, because even if he does he will be unable to fulfill Ner Chanuka, and it is as if he knows that if he buys the Ner Chanuka a lion will eat it, in which case he certainly need not sell his garment. 2) He should sell his garment and use the candle for Ner Chanuka 3) He should sell his garment and buy a candle for Ner Chanuka, but then use it for Ner Shabbos. This Gaon rejected the third possibility out of hand, and he was unsure how to decide between the first two possibilities.
This anonymous Gaon is none other than Rav Soloveitchik. I know this because the same story appears in the name of Rav Elya Baruch Finkel in the book “Read and Remember” by Rabbi Yirmiyahu Cohen, and there it names Rav Soloveitchik as the Gaon who laid out the three possibilities and rejected the third possibility.[13]
Ironically, “Read and Remember” has itself been the object of revision by omission. On p. 161, Rabbi Cohen relates that Rav Nochum Partzovitz was asked if a resident of chutz laaretz who is in Israel for the second night of Pesach could fulfill his mitzva by telling the story of Yetzias Mitzrayim to a resident of Israel, for whom it is not the seder night.
It seems to me that this piece from “Read and Remember” is obliquely referenced in Kuntres B’lev Yam Siman 41 number 2, page 629[14], by the current-day Rav Yaacov Moshe Shurkin, which is appended to the Shiurei Rabi Yaacov Moshe Shurkin of his grandfather (the magid shiur from Chaim Berlin); although this question is attributed to אחד מספרי מחברי זמנינו, with no more precise reference.
In this case, I imagine the omission of a specific reference is not due to hashkafic concerns, nor to the author cited being too modern, as R. Cohen is quite a kanai who is affiliated with Satmar and Natruna, and has written several books espousing anti-Zionism. I think it’s more likely in this case that the reference is obscured because it doesn’t “pas” to quote halachic material in a sefer from an English book.
Another example of revision by omission as relates to Rav Soloveitchik appears in R. Shimon Yosef Meller’s Harav MiBrisk volume 4, p. 17. The story about the Brisker Rav refusing to speak to a Rav who had helped Solomon Freehof is clearly taken without attribution from Rav Schachter’s Mipninei Harav, and Echad Mibnei Mishpachas Maran is obviously the Rav.
Rav Schachter’s omission of this particular Rav’s name is a different kind of omission, as that omission is because the story is rather critical of him. Rav Schachter often omits the names of Rabbanim towards whom Rav Soloveitchik expressed criticism. (This is in contrast to the prior examples of omission, where the omission is meant to prevent someone else from looking bad due to their association with the person or institution whose name is omitted, or because it doesn’t “pas” to cite that person or give him publicity.) I will follow suit and not mention the name of the Rav who helped Freehof, although his identity was first pointed out to me by my good friend Rabbi Dovid Bashevkin, and should be known to those who have thoroughly read through Dr. Shapiro’s “Saul Lieberman and the Orthodox.”
In R. Meller’s new biography of Rav Chaim Soloveitchik, Raban Shel Kol B’nei HaGolah (volumes 1 and 2), he appears to have reversed course somewhat, and does cite many times from Rav Schachter’s Nefesh Harav series, as well as from Ish Hahalacha, and other sources from Rav Soloveitchik. However, some sources still appear be out of bounds for citation. For example, the material from the government archive cited in Raban Shel Kol B’nei HaGolah volume 1 p. 396-399 appears to be taken without attribution from the updated version of Dr. Shaul Stampfer’s Hayeshiva Ha-Litait Be-Hithavuta. The Yesh HaSvurim mentioned on p. 400 who attribute the closing of Volozhin to the government’s concern about the chaos and machlokes in the yeshiva, rather than the government’s desire for secular education, would appear to be referring to Dr. Stampfer.
Another recent example of omission was brought to my attention by my father-in-law, R. Dovid Grosser, and is found in a recent appreciation of Rav Moshe Bick that appeared in Hamodia on September 9, 2020. “Immediately upon his arrival in New York, the young Rav Moshe spent his days in the “Poilishe shtiebel,” learning diligently. Eventually, he joined a suitable yeshivah, led by outstanding Gedolei haTorah… At that time, the renowned Gaon, Harav Shimon Shkop, zt”l, Rosh Yeshivah of Grodno, was in America for a fundraising visit and briefly served as a Rosh Yeshivah there… Subsequently, Harav Moshe Halevi Soloveitchik, zt”l, son of Harav Chaim of Brisk, zt”l, served as Rosh Yeshivah.”
I admit that I am perplexed by the purpose of this omission, as the references to Rav Shimon Shkop and Rav Moshe Soloveitchik make clear that this is referring to Yeshivas Rabeinu Yitzchak Elchanan. I don’t know what is gained by not mentioning the name, when it is clear which yeshiva Rav Bick attended. More misleading, however, is an Editor’s note about Rav Bick that appeared in the Jewish Observer (January 1991).
While it may be true that Rav Bick initially enrolled in Yeshivas Rabeinu Yitzchak Elchanan on the Lower East side before there was a college program, he certainly continued to learn there in Washington Heights, after the college was already operating. The move uptown occurred in January 1929, and Yeshiva College was founded in March of 1928, and graduated its first class in June of 1932.[15] Rav Moshe Soloveitchik only departed from Europe for America on September 18, 1929.[16] For Rav Bick to have learned under Rav Moshe, as the Jewish Observer mentions, he had to have been learning in RIETS in the uptown campus, and after the establishment of the college program. (I am not claiming that Rav Bick himself attended the college program, only that he learned in RIETS after the establishment of the college program, contra to the implication of the Jewish Observer.)
Returning to Rav Soloveitchik, one of the more well-known examples of revision by omission as relates to Rav Soloveitchik is Rav Chaim Dov Altusky’s Chiddushei Basra Al Chiddushei HaMasbir. As is well known, the “Masbir” refers to Rav Soloveitchik. (This has been documented previously on the Seforim Blog by Rav Nosson Kamenetsky.[17] See also Rav Shlomo Pick’s “The Rav: Biography and Bibliography” fn. 6, in BDD volume 6, where Rav Pick sharply criticizes Rav Altusky’s behavior.) As mentioned earlier in this post, Rav Schachter says he does not remember anything that Rav Gorelick said about Sanhedrin from his time in Rav Gorelick’s shiur. However, he did preserve many interesting haaros from Rav Gorelick at the time in his notes, and these have been published in the footnotes of my Shiurei Harav on Sanhedrin. Rav Schachter told me that Rav Gorelick would often ask him what the Rav said about a certain topic, and would then comment on what the Rav said, and these are the comments that Rav Schachter recorded at that time. Some of these comments are also reproduced in Rav Altusky’s Chiddushei Basra Al Chiddushei HaMasbir on Sanhedrin, which is based on Rav Schachter’s notes from the Rav’s shiur, without attribution to either. Rav Altusky, however, misunderstood some of Rav Schachter’s citations of Rav Gorelick. For example, on Sanhedrin 3a (p. 11), he cites an explanation in the name of “Rabeinu Yerucham”, but this is actually Rav Yerucham Gorelick’s explanation.
Rav Schachter attributed the explanation to ר‘ ירוחם in his notes, and Rav Altusky misunderstood the reference.[18] By Sanhedrin 5b (p. 18), Rav Altusky apparently realized that these references were to Rav Gorelick, and he cites דודי הרה“ג ר‘ ירוחם ז“ל. (Rav Altusky’s mother was Rav Gorelick’s sister.)
For more on Rav Gorelick and his family, Rav Simcha Elberg wrote a beautiful appreciation of Rav Gorelick in his Einei Ha-eida. On p. 119, Rav Elberg writes that Rav Gorelick’s home was not an apartment with rooms; his home was a beis medrash. And the crowning achievement of Rav Gorelick’s life’s work was his home, in which he raised all of his sons to be Gedolei Torah Ve-yirah, as well as great marbitzei torah.
I would add that the aforementioned Rav Leib Gorelick is a great talmid chacham and lamdan. In my interactions with him, I have been astonished at his wide-ranging knowledge of even obscure rishonim and other seforim, as well as his analytic abilities. Listen here at approximately 1:35:15 to 1:38:13 where Rav Schachter cites a lomdish explanation from Rav Leib to explain the Rama in 472:4 who says that only women rely on the opinion of the Ravyah that heseiba is no longer required.[19] (Rav Leib has been suffering from some health problems lately and readers are asked to daven for Mordechai Leib ben Chana.[20])
Besides for Rav Leib, another son, Rav Tzvi Abba Gorelick was a Rosh Yeshiva at the Yeshiva Gedolah Zichron Moshe in South Fallsburg. Another son, Rav Chaim Ozer Gorelick, is author of sefer Otzar Chaim, and is currently Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva Gedolah of Spring Valley. I think the blog readers will find interesting this excerpt about Rav Chaim Ozer Gorelick, and the continuation about Rav Aharon Lichtenstein, from Alt un Nay in Yisrael, by Nissan Gordon, in 1964.
I will translate the excerpt for those readers who don’t read Yiddish:
“The young bochurim and yungeleit who learn by Rav Berel, as Rav Velvel’s bechor is called in the Yerushalmi yeshiva world, sit and learn b’kvius in the Achva neighborhood shul, and to shiur they come to the Rosh Yeshiva’s house. And indeed here, in the illuy’ish chabura, who learn by Rav Soloveitchik, a cousin of our American Rav Soloveitchik from Boston and New York, I found a bochur’l from the Bronx, on whom the Yerushalmi lomdim testified, that he is among the best, if not the very best, student in the Brisker chabura. The bochur’l is called Chaim Ozer Gorelick, a name after the great Rav of Vilna, and a son of Rav Yerucham Gorelick from the Bronx, a Rosh Yeshiva in Yeshivas Rabeinu Yitzchak Elchanan and himself one of the b’nei aliyah in the world of lomdus and actions for Torah in America.”
It seems the original “best bochur in Brisk” was Rav Chaim Ozer Gorelick, who indeed became a great talmid chacham. The following is a translation of the ensuing conversation with Rav Berel about Rav Aharon Lichtenstein:
“Do you correspond with your famous cousin in America?”, I asked a quick question to Rav Soloveitchik of Yerushalayim.
“In Brisk we don’t write letters[21]”, came a fast answer with an addition, that he did meet with his cousin’s son-in-law, Rav Dr. Aharon Lichtenstein, when the young Rosh Yeshiva and scholar was on a visit in Israel. “We spoke in learning and he is a great lamdan”, did the Yerushalmi Soloveitchik notice about his cousin’s son-in-law, who is an assistant Rosh Yeshiva to his father-in-law in Yeshivas Rabeinu Yitzchak Elchanan, and a professor in Stern College.
“Meaning that there is room for both, for Torah and worldly knowledge”, I tried asking Rav Berel, knowing the strong speaking out of the house of Brisk in Yerushalayim against learning anything other than Torah.
“Sometimes succeeds…an exception…and from an exception we don’t bring a raya”, he didn’t leave me to wait long for his answer.
One final recent example of revision by omission that I want to call attention to, is from the journal Hamaor (Nissan-Iyar 5779, p.5). A piece from Rav Chaim Soloveitchik’s chiddushim is published there, which was written down in 1932 by his nephew Rav Yisrael Soloveitchik. The piece is an alternate version of the piece that was eventually published in Rav Chaim’s sefer, on Hilchos Chametz U’Matza Perek 6 about greira. We are told that Rav Yisrael attached the divrei torah to a letter from Erev Pesach 1932, and that he wrote to the recipient that it would be an Oneg Yom Tov for him to read.
What we are not told, however, is that this letter and accompanying divrei torah were sent to Rav Herzog, and are found in Rav Herzog’s archive.[22] (I had not yet come across this letter when I wrote my Seforim Blog posts on Rav Herzog’s archive.) Here is the first page of the letter, addressed to Rav Herzog, with the mention of the divrei torah from Rav Chaim, and then the first page of the divrei torah.
Additionally, the transcription in Hamaor contains numerous errors. I plan to publish an accurate transcription in my forthcoming sefer שש אנכי.
These are some examples of revision by omission that I have come across recently. I am certain that there are many more waiting to be discovered.
Regarding Rav Herzog, here are a few photos that the blog readers will enjoy, of Rav Herzog being mesader kiddushin at the wedding of a young Shlomo Gorenczik. The entire photo album is available in Rav Goren’s archive.[23] It is also noteworthy that the wedding seudah was separate seating.
Appendix: The Rav and Professor Saul Lieberman on the Langer Case
Related to Rav Goren’s archive, I know that the blog readers are especially interested in the Rav and Professor Saul Lieberman, so I thought I would make note of their positions on the Langer case, which to the best of my knowledge have not been noted yet.
The Rav addressed the Langer case in his well-known speech in 1975 on the topic of the Rabbi Rackman’s aguna plan.[24]
However, if you think that the solution lies in the reformist philosophy, or in an extraneous interpretation of the Halacha, you are badly mistaken. It is self-evident; many problems are unsolvable, you can’t help it. For instance, the problem of these two mamzerim in Eretz Yisrael – you can’t help it. All we have is the institution of mamzer. No one can abandon it – neither the Rav HaRoshi, nor the Rosh HaGola. It cannot be abandoned. It is a pasuk in Chumash: “לא יבא ממזר בקהל ה‘”. It is very tragic; the midrash already spoke about it, “והנה דמעת העשוקים“, but it’s a reality, it’s a religious reality. If we say to our opponents or to the dissident Jews, “That is our stand” – they will dislike us, they will say that we are inflexible, we are ruthless, we are cruel, but they will respect us. But however, if you try to cooperate with them or even if certain halachic schemes are introduced from within, I don’t know, you would not command love, you would not get their love, and you will certainly lose their respect. That is exactly what happened in Eretz Yisrael! What can we do? This is Toras Moshe and this is surrender. This is קבלת עול מלכות שמים. We surrender.[25]
The Rav is clearly referring to the Langer case, and he considered Rav Goren’s heter to be illegitimate. He refers to the Langers as two mamzerim, and he uses the Langer case as an example of something “unsolvable” and that “you can’t help it.” He seems to be using Rav Goren’s heter as an example of “an extraneous interpretation of the Halacha.” And according to the Rav, the more appropriate response would have been to surrender to halacha; that the attempted heter was a futile attempt to coax love out of dissident Jews. I have not seen this speech of the Rav mentioned in the context of the Langer case and I thought it appropriate to mention here.
It appears that Professor Lieberman felt differently. This is a heretofore unknown, and very fascinating letter that he wrote to Rav Goren supporting the heter, found in Rav Goren’s archive, with my transcription below.[26] (Rav Goren’s response to this letter is printed in “Saul Lieberman and the Orthodox, Hebrew section p. 9.) Lieberman’s cynicism in this letter is biting, and he seems to be rather hurt and bitter. The advice and observations that he shares with Rav Goren are obviously informed by his own experiences. I would ask if any readers (or Dr. Shapiro) have any idea which Gedolei Torah asked Lieberman to review Rav Goren’s psak. I am also not entirely clear on Lieberman’s explanation at the beginning of the letter as to why he is not offering a bracha. I think it is related to what he writes in his postscript from his wife, and that he viewed Rav Goren’s appointment with ambivalence because of the difficulty in the position, but any further suggestions from readers would be appreciated.
בעה“י אור ליום ג‘ פר‘ וישלח תשל“ג
לידי“נ הגאון הגדול וכו‘ וכו‘ מוהר“ר שלמה נר“ו
לא כתבתי לך ברכה מפני שלא היה לבי שלם אתי, אבל התפללתי בלב שלם שה‘ יצליח את דרכך. היום קראו לי מרדיו ירושלים ובקשו ממני לחוות את דעתי על הפסק שלך ולמרות הלחץ עמדתי בשלי ואמרתי שלא חקרתי את הדבר ואין לי מה לומר. אבל לך אכתוב את האמת: יברך אותך ה‘ ויישר כוחך. אני מכיר גם את תורתך ואת יראת שמים שלך, ובטוח אני שצדקת. לא אמרתי להם כן, מפני שחששתי שאגרום לך רעה. יאמרו הקנאים נמצא עוד רב קונסרבטיבי שמסכים להרב הראש—[27], מצא מין את מינו.
בהיותי בקיץ בירושלים לחצו עלי גדולי תורה מן הרבנים שאקרא את תשובתך בענין, וסרבתי בהחלט. אמרתי: אין לי פנאי. הבינותי את כוונתם. דע לך שבמקום שיש קנאה ושנאה שום דבר אינו מועיל. אף פעם לא תפייס את הקנאים, ובעיקר את המקנאים. אם תכנע להם תאבד את עולמך. אני מכיר יפה מה שעשית בצבא, ולוא נוצרת רק לשם זה כבר קנית את עולמך. אדם ירא שמים אמיתי יחשוב עשר פעמים לצאת נגדך אפילו אם יהי‘ בטוח שלא כיוונת לאמת. עליך להחזיק בידידים שלך יפה, יפה, מפני שקל מאד לאבד ידיד (בפרט אם הוא איננו גדול בתורה ואינו בר דעת), ושונא מקנא לעולם לא תהפוך לידיד, וכל מה שתעשה בשבילו אינו אלא לשעה קלה. יבטל את תורתך ויכפור ביראתך. לך והצלח וישמור שומר ישראל עליך.
בכבוד ובאהבה,
שאול ליברמן
הגב‘ שלי מבקשת למסור דר“ש להרבנית שתחי‘. רצתה גם היא לכתוב אלא שעדיין אינה מרגישה את עצמה בטוב. היא באמת שמחה על בחירתך, שהרי היא אינה יודעת מהו להיות רב בירושלים.
[1] https://seforimblog.com/2009/10/some-assorted-comments-and-selection-2/
[2] https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=50519&st=&pgnum=39
[3] https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=50519&st=&pgnum=42
[4] https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=50521&st=&pgnum=255
[5] See R. Gil Student’s criticism here: https://www.torahmusings.com/2009/10/reb-yerucham-and-yu/. See also: http://theantitzemach.blogspot.com/2008/01/blog-post_13.html and https://machshavos.wordpress.com/2013/01/02/r-yerucham-gorelick-and-talmud-vs-hashkafa/.
[6] https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/741763/rabbi-hershel-schachter/remembering-rav-yeruchim-gorelik/ at approximately 5:08, 11:57 and 18:09
[7] https://matzav.com/engagement-of-grandchildren-of-rav-chaim-dov-keller-and-rav-yitzchok-sorotzkin/
[8] For a full collection of Rabbi Hoffman’s own divrei torah, see http://yeshivasbrisk.freeservers.com/netvort.html. For Rabbi Hoffman’s thesis on Rav Gavriel Zev Margolis, see http://repository.yu.edu/handle/20.500.12202/4899
[9] See Yated Ne’eman (English), August 21,2020, page 46-47
[10] My thanks to Rabbi Menashe Mazurek and Rabbi Avi Harari for bringing this reference to my attention
[11] https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46424&st=&pgnum=672
[12] https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46424&st=&pgnum=674. Here, the three possibilities, as well as the rejection of the third possibility, are attributed to “Gedolei Torah”.
[13] My thanks to my good friend Rabbi Nosson Rich for providing the scans from “Read and Remember”.
[14] https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=50479&st=&pgnum=629
[15] https://www.yu.edu/about/history
[16] The Rav, volume 1, p. 9
[17] https://seforimblog.com/2012/12/a-letter-from-r-nathan-kamenetsky/
[18] Another error is on 7b (p.30), where Rav Altusky has a discussion about whether דינו לבקר משפט applies to ”אומות העולם”. This entire section is mistaken, because the Rav spoke about “איסור והיתר”, not ”אומות העולם”. Rav Schachter had written או“ה in his notes and Rav Altusky opened the abbreviation incorrectly.
[19] See here.
[20] https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/12/tehllim-reb-leib-gorelick-to-undergo-emergency-surgery.html
[21] I assume he was referring specifically to social correspondence that they don’t write in Brisk, not torah correspondence.[22] https://www.archives.gov.il/archives/Archive/0b07170680024756/File/0b071706806d9fc7 on p. 49-53.[23] https://www.archives.gov.il/archives/Archive/0b07170684e17c68/File/0b07170687520f3c
[24] https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/767722/rabbi-joseph-b-soloveitchik/gerus-mesorah-part-1/ at approximately 39:00 to 40:53.
[25] Transcription from https://www.torahweb.org/torah/special/2019/ryds_rietsalumni.html
[26] https://www.archives.gov.il/archives/Archive/0b07170684e17c68/File/0b07170685459764 on p. 281.
[27] I was expecting this word to be הראשי but there appear to be two hyphens at the end. Does it say הראשיי with two yud’s? I don’t believe that is a common spelling. I would be indebted to any reader who can explain what this means.
45 thoughts on “Rav Gorelick, the Rav, and Revision by Omission”
A minor point: The use of “Rav” + first name here irks me. Shouldn’t it be “Rav Gorelick”, “Reb Yerucham”, “Reb Leib”?
Great post!
Readers might be interested in:
“The Excellent Saint
and the
Rosh Yeshivah”
an appreciation of
Rabbi Avraham Aharon Shatzkes
and Rabbi Yerucham Gorelick
of blessed memory
by Dr. Norman Lamm,
President, Yeshiva University
Rosh Hayeshivah, Rabbi Isaac Elchanan
Theological Seminary
at a Memorial Assembly
in Lamport Auditorium
2 Cheshvan 5744 October 9,1983
here:
https://archives.yu.edu/gsdl/collect/lammserm/index/assoc/HASH0156.dir/doc.pdf
For a slightly earlier appreciation of Rav Gorelick זצ”ל delivered not long after his levaya in September 1983 listen here: https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/725614/rabbi-yehuda-parnes/hespid-of-rav-gorelik/ (87 minutes)
It was a hesped given in the YU beis midrash by Rav Yehuda Parnes שליט”א who was a close talmid of Rav Gorelick. Their relationship spanned from the time the latter began his time at RIETS as a rebbe at MTA in 1943 and lasted for many decades.
Rav Gorelick was a strong influence on Rav Parnes in the Brisker derech halimud that the former received from the Brisker Rav. He also had a strong influence on Rav Parnes in hashkafa.
Rabbi Habeeman on the West Side of Manhattan was an honoree at the dinner of a local institution. He gave a lengthy speech about his memories as a student of Hagaon Rav Yeruchem zatzal. Fierce but fun. He focused especially on the occasional lomdus matched between Rav Garelick and Harav Soloveichik. And i think he told his students something to the effect that the tenor of the debate may not have been polite, but we both prize truth over politeness.
B”H.
Very interesting article.
One small addition. Since in note 8 there is mention made the the Works of Joshua Hoffman, I wanted to add one more fine piece.
http://www.ravkooktorah.org/RAV-KOOK-IN-AMERICA.htm
” Listen here at approximately 1:35:15 to 1:38:13 where Rav Schachter cites a lomdish explanation from Rav Leib to explain the Rama in 472:4 who says that only women rely on the opinion of the Ravyah that heseiba is no longer required.[19]”
Please supply a link.
It’s in footnote 19
Rav Moshe Bick’s father was a rav on Bensonhurt where we davened, and were close, because he and my grandfather, Rav Ephraim Zalman Halpern were very close friends. My grandfather lived in Jslm, and was the founder of Va’ad ha-mikvaot, which he founded upon moving from NYC to Jslm in 1935. My grandfather would stay with us when he came to raise funds and R. Bick would come visit.
R. Bick told my parents that he specifically sent R. Moshe to learn in RIETS because it had the placement service for rabbonim, so he would have an easier time getting a shtele.
BTW, R. Ezra Bick in the Gush is a nephew of R. Moshe. R. Ezra’s father was Charlie Bick, very active in American men’ Mizrachi, and an aunt, sister of R. Moshe, was married to a Furst of the YU family
Why is the “Rabbi” appellation not used for Saul Lieberman instead of “Professor”? It is understandable that ArtScroll would not want to reference him as Rabbi but in this forum he should be.
On note 27, could it be a yud followed by a semicolon?
Definitely possible. I didn’t look like that to me (because the yud is more horizontal) but it seems possible.
“Rav Gorelick argued that such translations are inappropriate, as they make learning Gemara too easy, and learning Gemara requires hard work and toil (ameilus). ”
This gives Artscroll way too much credit. Artscroll is great, but it doesn’t make learning Gemara “easy.”
As an aside, does this mean there is a special inyan to learn the harder masechtos vis a vis the easier ones? After all, the former will entail harder work!
“Furthermore, Talmud study had always been reserved for the elite, not the masses, who studied other topics like Mishnayos and Ein Yaakov” es, it had always been the province of the elite – by definition, but I’m not sure what this is supposed to prove. We are commanded to learn and teach Torah as much as possible. To carve out an enormous exception – teaching basic/intermediary Talmud to the masses – requires very strong, authoritative proofs.
I agree with you, but Rav G was just expressing an attitude which exists (thankfully less so now than in the past) among the non-hasidic world, and which was one of the issues that hasidut “rebelled” against.
By the way, I think that debate existed in the Christian world also, especially in the Middle Ages.
The Hasidim were rebelling against holding up learned elites vis a vis the unlearned masses (among other things). This is about who gets to learn. The Litvishe yeshivos had no problem accepting kids from simple, unlearned backgrounds. I think this is an unfaithful extension of the Litvishe mindset, and I think it’s very incorrect. R”G has to prove that we may not teach Talmud to the masses. (Sounds wild to even say the words.) Until he can prove otherwise, it’s an absolute chiyuv to teach anyone and everyone (male) Torah, including, of course, the Talmud.
When I learned in the Mir Yeshiva, I went on a long walk with R’ Elya Baruch zt”l and he told me that prior to traveling to the USA, Rav Schach told him he can go to Rav Soloveitchik but not to the Lubavitcher Rebbe. But Reb Nachum Pertzavitz told him exactly the opposite. So he went to the Rebbe with encouragement from R’ Nachum, and he went to R’ Soloveitchik with encouragement from R’ Schach.
Amazing… thanks for posting!
What did rav moshe mean when he asked “how could a grandson of the mirrer ry ask such a question”?
I understood it to mean that to Reb Moshe, the psak that he should sell his garment and then use the candle for Shabbos was so obvious that he didn’t understand how a talmid chochom could even ask the question. The idea was to contrast Reb Moshe’s thought process with that of Reb Yoshe Ber, who completely rejected that same tzad.
Thank you R. Cohen. As you know, I very much enjoy your writing (you might recall that we met in person in January of 2012…)
Also, in Yishurin 41 it says that Rav Shmuel Rozovsky and Rav Nachum also thought that one of the first two tzdadim must be correct (like the Rav), while Rav Elyashiv paskened like the third tzad (like Rav Moshe).
I vaguely remember seeing it written somewhere that Rav Elya Baruch observed from here how different the thought process of Roshei Yeshiva is from that of poskim. Do you know where that observation is recorded?
WADR, I believe Josh Hoffman a”h was known as The Hoffer even during his lifetime.
I realize this. A number of people have written to me with this tayna. My intention was to reference the way that he always added an adverb that was related to the title that immediately preceded his byline. Since I was citing him as “the late”, I thought it would be appropriate to use the adverb “postthumously”, as it is related to the immediately preceding “late”.
I know this will come across as rude, but it’s really not intended to be.
If you review the last 30 (40?) years of YU-centric modern orthodoxy*, then you can see a clear trend:
stage 1: addressing and tackling societal issues from a Jewish perspective
stage 2 : explaining why tackling societal issues from a Jewish perspective is too hard and might lead to some not-frum enough conclusions
stage 3: navel gazing and hoping nobody notices that societal issues are not being tackled from a jewish perspective the YU-modern orthodox community.
This article would appear to be a par-excellence example of stage 3
This article is part of the genre called “hock.” I have no idea what you mean about “tackling societal issues,” but it seems that you may not be the target audience of this blog if that is what you are looking for.
Well put!
I was a freshman in RAL ztl’s shiur in 1965/66. My next shiur was to be RAS ztl, who departed for Chicago. Mr. Abrams AH decided the boys who were to go RAS, were to go to Rav Gorelik ztl instead. RAL told me after this became public knowledge something akin to: You will enjoy Rav Gorelik for a few weeks until the novelty wears off; he suggested I stay with him for another year, which I did.
that year another Gewirtz joined the shiur and RAL never came up with another name other than HE.
Missed you by a year. (I had RAL in 64/65). Then to Rav Fishman who sadly died that year with the shiur taken over by Rav Paretsky) and then to Rav Gorelick.
I showed this article to my father-in-law, R’ Yaakov Moishe Shurkin, (who’s sefer is discussed here.)
The following was his response:
>>”Thank you!
“Regarding what that blog author believes that my quote is from the book “Read and Remember,” he is mistaken. I had never seen that book. Also, I now see, that book was published in 2006, many years after the publication of my kuntras.
“I actually am very careful to always give proper credit to those I quote “beshem oimroi.” In that piece, where I quote “echod memechabrei zmaneinu,” it was simply because I did not remember the name of the sefer.
“What the author theorises it did not “pas” for me to quote an English book as a source, is also a mistake. In my seforim, in other places, I have quoted English seforim.
“I do, however, very much appreciate this author’s looking at my sefer.”
“That Hamodia article on Hagaon R’ Moishe Bick z”l states that he met Maran Hagaon R’ Naftali Trop z”l in America. This is not true. R’ Naftali z”l was never in America.”<<
By the way, in the paragraph I highlighted, where it says “nahag yom echad shel y”t k’ven chu”l” should be “k’ven E”Y”
Thank you for your comment!
Question to the readers –
Is anyone aware of this particular diyun appearing in any other sefer? The details of the maase shehaya between the two sources I have posted are very similar. I drew the conclusion I did due to the similarity in all the details, and the fact that I had never seen this issue raised in any other sefer.
I will also point out regarding the years. Read and Remember was published in 2006, and it appears that Kuntres B’lev Yam was published in 5769.
https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=50479&st=&pgnum=553
When I learned at YU the story about R. Yeruham Gorelick is that when asked what he does he would answer that he teaches at the “Amsterdamer Yeshiva” (for those not in the know – Yeshiva University is located on Amsterdam Ave.)
It has been brought to my attention that the diyun about Sipur Yetzias Mitzrayim also appears in Rav Yitzchak Zilberstein’s Chashukei Chemed (5766):
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49719&st=&pgnum=618
I therefore retract what I wrote in this post about Rav Shurkin’s Kuntres B’lev Yam. My apologies to Rav Shurkin.
You should edit the original post to reflect your retraction. How many people will read the comments as compared to the post?
Good point, I have asked the editors to remove that part.
Matza min es mino. That is very funny. Is that a known rabbinic joke, or Lieberman’s own line?
It is a known pun. I believe it was applied earlier by the kannaim in Jerusalem to Rav Kook and the Imrei Emmes.
So just to clarify, can the original exchange (once explained) be summed up as follows?
“You don’t teach Gemara to those who can’t take it.”
“Your father taught at YU, and they can’t learn there.”
“That’s true, but he mostly taught mussar as part of Gemara just for them.” (And could have taught Gemara if it was to others, I suppose.)
In other words, is R’ Gorelick’s son agreeing that YU students (back then and presumably now) don’t know how to learn?
I’m not sure how that’s less offensive than claiming his father didn’t teach there at all, although I suppose it’s less of an incorrect objective fact.
I don’t think we can really rely on a statement of R’ Schachter here. R’ Schachter, and I say this with all respect, operates on a different level than almost all of us. His “I don’t remember Gemara from R’ Gorelick” doesn’t mean that others wouldn’t. My father (who was in fact a classmate of R’ Schachter) definitely remembers R’ Gorelick’s Gemara, and was very offended when this first came up. He also definitely knows how to learn.
But why not tell one of my favorite stories of R’ Gorelick? He once spoke at a shul in the Bronx, where both he and my father lived. My grandmother was in the audience, and he blasted YU. After the speech, she, who feared no one, went up to him and said, “If that’s all true, why do you take a salary from them?”
The next day after shiur he called my father over. “I spoke to your mother last night.” Pause. “Ze a kluge frau.” (“A very wise woman.”)
I think that sums him up in a big way.
Other points:
-Well, now to pick through “Saul Lieberman and the Orthodox” to see what rabbi it was. If only there was an index… 🙂
-“This was before RIETS had a college” is a common claim. Artscroll put out a book on American history pre-war that has a section on RIETS which literally ends with, “And then they opened a college and the gedolim objected” or something like that.
-The seating may be separate there, but it’s a small room and the men and women are right on top of each other. I doubt there was anything formal like place settings. Presumably, as often happens, the men settled in one place and the women in another.
-My father recounts R’ Soloveitchik being critical of R’ Goren in shiur more than a decade before he became chief rabbi. But the facts of the Langer case are plain enough that at least he’d have to admit that R’ Goren had something to rely on. It’s on the tip of my tongue, but wasn’t there some other (either much earlier or later) controversy in which R’ Goren was involved?
Thanks.
Ah, I think I found it: The other case involved conversion, not mamzerut.
What he is saying is that he didn’t really teach Gemara at YU (because YU guys can’t learn).
So all the people who were in his shiur will now be surprised to learn that for the entire year that they were learning difficult sugyos, that they really weren’t learning. It was all a cover to teach them mussar.
OK, I went through the whole Shapiro book and found nothing.
I don’t think anyone was claiming that no one in YU knew how to learn. Only that there were a lot of such people. So the question is: if – as claimed – it’s inappropriate to teach Torah to such people, then why was R’ Gorelick doing just that?
I think the son’s point is not that his father only focused on mussar when teaching gemara. Only that his purpose in giving a gemara shiur to a group which included many people for whom this was inappropriate was that he could impart a lot of mussar in this shiur. So the Gemara teaching to that audience was worthwhile in pursuit of the greater cause. In this way, it can be distinguished from the Artscroll Shas, where the entire purpose is to teach Gemara to those who can’t learn on their own, which R’ Gorelick (Jr) believes is not appropriate.
[This is not to say that I agree with R’ Gorelick Jr about the Artscroll Shas.]
On another note, I was surprised at this statement from R’ Sasson: “I drew the conclusion I did due to the similarity in all the details, and the fact that I had never seen this issue raised in any other sefer.” What does the second half of this sentence mean? There are thousands of seforim out there by contemporary authors, probably tens of thousands. How many seforim could R’ Sasson have possibly seen? ISTM that the probative value of “I had never seen this issue raised in any other sefer” is virtually zero.
[FWIW, I also don’t think the similarity of details is much either.]
I spent a semester in Rav Yerucham’s shiur in the late 70’s and had many conversations with him till I graduated YU in 1980. In one of those conversations, Rav Yerucham noted that there were very serious talmidei chachamim in YU and he was bothered that the yeshivish world didn’t recognize them. This is in sharp contrast to the claim that Rav Yerucham thought YU talmidim couldn’t learn and he was mainly concerned with teaching mussar.
I imagine that at the time I attended YU the level of talmidim had drastically changed from the time R. Hershel Schacter was in the shiur. The main reason for that change was the trend to spend a gap year or more in an Israeli yeshiva before starting college. This introduced a significant group of budding talmidei chachamim who came to YU with a richer and broader Torah background who were committed and focused on talmud Torah. There is no doubt in my mind that Rav Yerucham recognized this change. Although he still had criticism for much that went on in YU, he very much appreciated talmidim to whom he could teach Torah at a high level.
Just noting that Rav Schachter quotes מו״ר הר״ר ירוחם גורליק ז״ל in a halakhic context in Hebrew par. 7 of his Inyanei Purim released this week.
I am going to again say that I heard the Rav speak about the Langer case in Boston ca. 1970-1973and what he said was that IF the facts were as R. Goren stated them it was :yeshiva Katana’ question that R. Goren was right
mixed up between r naftoli trop and r shimon shkop who taught at yu while in new york
in fact rav bick related that unlike the legend that r shimon left yu at the behest of r yerucham of mir in truth he was not moved by reb yeruchams demand
he went back to grodna because he missed his talmidim
I guess R’ Gorelick’s shiur was on too low a level for Rav Shechter which begs the question “Why was he there?”
So I had the privilege of learning in R’ Gorelick’s shiur for 2 years and the focus was on lomdus, although there was hashkafa too. Here are 2 takeaways from his derech halimud:
1. He wanted his talmudim to take a stand on their understanding of a sugya. He could not stand anyone being wishy-washy. Better to be found out to be wrong than not have an opinion.
2. For every chidush that he gave, he always found at least a hint in a rishon.
And of course, there are too many stories of sharp wit to tell, but this isn’t the forum